Do you enjoy your sailing, or do you minimise your passage time?

[FairweatherDave]

Tootles, bimbles and kennings. Magic. Looking forward to seeing which one applies this weekend. Due to unforseen circumstances this is our first long weekend escape of Chichester harbour of the season....sailing as much as we can soak up. The Solent will be our ocean.........
Microverse.....:encouragement:

 

[lpdsn]

You like sailing, right? Me too. OK.

You know when you’re planning a passage and you take account of the tidal flows to minimise time spent at sea? Why do you do that? I thought you liked spending time at sea?

I don’t get it. I don’t get it in myself either. If we find peace, space, independence, adventure, whatever it is, while sailing... why do we go to such lengths to minimise the amount of time we actually spend sailing?

It's about getting a bit further so you don't end up going back to the same place you went to last month or the month before. And getting back in enough time so that you can sort out the boat, get home and get to work the next day.

There are two small marinas and a tidal stone harbour that are > 15 miles and <45 miles from where my boat is based. Going somewhere local doesn't make a decent sail of it and I keep them for when the weather is bad. I'm pretty bored of the middling places. Going somewhere a bit more interesting at the weekend requires a 50 to 60 mile sail each way. Good passage planning and a bit of focus on sail trim is necessary.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Not much hope for me either. When we're racing we're gleeful about time avoided on the water, and when we cruise off 'down west' not only do we minimize contrary tides, but spend all of a night doing it instead of a bit of one.

 

[Neeves]

There is another contradiction (and no mention of anchors nor anchoring ) But if one were to look back at yachts past and those today then today's yachts go faster (generally) and if you are going to the same destination you spend less time sailing. The new yachts don't go so much faster that you can go twice as far in the same time - so you could go a bit further in the same time - but unlikely there will be a 'different' destination as 'new' anchorages tend to be a lot further on.

The advent of the faster yacht simply means you spend less time on passage - and less time sailing (unless you consciously slow down).

I did meet a couple once whose focus was the destination rather than the passage. They put their money where their desires were and had a motor catamaran built. But in general most yachtsmen stick with sails - and don't migrate to MoBos - which suggests - most of us like sailing.

Personally I like passage making, Josephine is less enthusiastic (unless the fishing is good). But we both like the destinations as they are so different to each other and often only easily accessible by sea. But though I like the passage making I do try to complete the passages as efficiently as possible, so sail trim etc keeps me occupied.

But we do not have a train to catch, nor lottery winnings to collect - so if our passage plans seldom have a destination set in concrete and if we are a bit slow (or go too fast and need a new destination) it really does not matter.

Jonathan

Edit

We tend not to have contrary tides, though there are exceptions. We do have a major current, The East Australia Current, which can flow at 4 knots (approximately most of the way down Australia's east coast). It does need to be factored in to passage planning in that going north (against the current) one hugs the shore and going south get out to the 100 fathom line (or to where the water is 'warmer' the current flows from the Tropics). But usually tides - irrelevant - except where they are noteworthy - and then timing is critical - NE and NW corner of Tasmania being good examples - as you cannot win a fight against a 6 knot contrary tide!).

Close Edit

 

[maby]

Well you definitely don’t like sailing! 5 months x 30 days x 50% of that time spent aboard is some 75 days aboard. During which you have been at sea for 12 hours, half a day. Out of the time you’ve been aboard your boat, you have spent less than one percent of it sailing. Wow!

We don't dislike it - we just don't have time for it. Most of those 75 days aboard have been spent working - as in "working for a living" working. We just like living on the boat and return to the house occasionally to collect mail and visit relatives. That said, when we do do longer passages, we will plan to minimise passage time - the main objective is to get to another place where we can spend some time.

 

[KellysEye]

Jane and I did enjoy sailing, we planned to be away for two years and came back to the UK six and a half years later.

 

[RupertW]

Tidal flows? What are they?

Richard

I know what you mean - our planning skills have certainly got rusty. We went through the Messina Straits a couple of days ago and there were a lot of terrifying instructions - 'can only go with tidal flow in your direction, water swirls over shallow ground, big ships go through in lanes, multiple ferries crossing at high speed, etc.' In fact it was simple compared to Solent sailing and we should have been able to do the calculations in 20 minutes not 2 hours.

Tideless again in the Aolian islands. Phew.

 

[Stemar]

The Admiral's comfortable limit is about two hours, 4 hours max, If getting somewhere is going to take longer than that on our Snapdragon, the engine goes on or I go alone, and I enjoy her company.

 

[pagoda]

We certainly pay attention to tides, though the occasional 1 to 3Kts patch of foul tide is not that worrying. We've just completed a round Ireland trip (clockwise). Tidal flow in Irish waters is not to be ignored (by sail craft). We had 4 kts with us coming past Malin Head (Inishtrahull Sound) and 3.5 under us in Rathlin Sound. I see no point in adding hours to already decent length passages when nature is there to assist. If there is a tidal gate I'm happy to motor sail at times to reach it.

 

[lw395]

I like to go as far as I can comfortably in the time available. So planning for tides and sailing well fits more into a week or two.
But I enjoy sailing. I don't enjoy motoring in a yacht nearly so much. So there is a balance. If I'm aiming to sail to Weymouth, and there is no wind, I might stop at Poole or Swanage rather than give up on the sailing and motor to Weymouth.
I think people who always put the motor on if they aren't sailing at 5 knots are losing something. I'll do it myself when I need to get home or on a channel crossing, but why motor a yacht to Lymington when you could sail it and end up in Cowes? Sometimes there is good reason to do so, but there is a balance. E.g. if my plan is to be in Lymington to set off from there next morning for Weymouth, then the motor will probably go on.

We saw in the RTIR this year, a lot of yacht sailors really not knowing what to do when the wind is light, other than resorting to the motor. We have better boats than in the old days, but maybe we're too taken with the better engines? As a result, a lot of boats on the market seem to have rigs which aren't great in light air. Sometimes almost a vicious circle, the boat becomes less rewarding to attempt sailing in light airs so you don't do it, then the next boat is really a motorboat with some roll-up sails to save diesel if the course happens to be a reach in force 4 to F5.

 

[SimonFa]

There is a lot of pleasure in planning an optimal passage and then sailing the boat efficiently to make that tidal gate or dinner engagement or just sitting at anchor or on a mooring having a beer and reflecting on a job well done.

There’s also a lot of pleasure to be had just sailing up and down the coast, enjoying the views and just letting the world go by. That pleasure can be enhanced listening to TMS

Sometimes the pleasure is taking family and friends out and watching them enjoying themselves as they learn the basics of sailing.

There’s little pleasure in having the engine on for 6 hours just to get somewhere, no matter the reason.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Interesting comments and there’s no simple one answer. We’re currently in Trébeurden and got up this morning thinking we would slip out as soon as the Marina Cill automatically lowered. The intention was to sail to Tréguier 28 miles away and just about doable in one tide.

Thick mist/fog sees me lying on my bunk thinking 12 miles round to Perros-Guirec is a better plan. What’s worse is that the 10 knots from the N has become 5-7 knots from the East. We’ll try and sail a bit but we’ve been here three nights (one at anchor and two in the marina) and would like a change of scenery... I guess we’ll be burning some more diesel at this rate.

Life’s full of choices but sailing going nowhere against a foul tide is a choice I try to avoid. I once in my early skippering days watched Hartland point for six hours while we barely moved. Never again.

 

[maby]

...

Life’s full of choices but sailing going nowhere against a foul tide is a choice I try to avoid. I once in my early skippering days watched Hartland point for six hours while we barely moved. Never again.

A couple of years ago we made the mistake of taking a little sailing dinghy up the River Itchen without first checking the tides. We set out from Southampton and headed up river with both wind and tide behind us - I never imagined that little dinghy could go so fast! then we turned round to head back for lunch - tacking against wind and tide down a river that was a couple of hundred yards wide... I remember one tack that took us to a red can, then going about and crossing the river again before tacking back to the same red can - twenty minutes later, I could have painted you an absolutely accurate image of that can from memory down to the last seagull crap!

 

[TSB240]

Tidal flows? What are they?

Richard

Just in case you need a reminder.....




We have clocked over 8 knots of tide in this area on springs!

We love sailing but not taking tides into account would be stupid and dangerous in our neck of the woods.
The annual regatta took place last week and one competitor ended up getting holed in this area.

We have moved to live by the boat that used to be our weekend home. We have probably been on the water less since the move. Mainly because we are actually making a definite choice to go sailing rather than move the floating caravan to a different location.

This year we have had a long cruise to Southern Ireland, shorter weekends sailing in company to local Beaches, Pubs and Marinas.
I am quite surprised to say the the most enjoyable sailing has been the last two days taking part in the local regatta with a little bit of competitive racing.

This introduced my oldest grand daughter to racing which she loved.

Sailing in this area is never about pootling along without any care and planning of course and destination. It is intellectually stimulating working the tides and winds to your best ability. Even better reward when your competitors don't or can't follow your lead into the best back eddies!
I continue to do the same on longer passages. I suspect my book reading quota is a lot lower than most!

 

[rotrax]

Just back from almost 1000 NM two month trip with a short 1 week break in the middle to attend a dear friends 90th Birthday party.

Sailed just twice for any appreciable time. Not enough wind to keep our motorsailers sails full and a reasonable speed up without a bit of iron jib.

We make use of fair tide, if possible, but adverse tide just means using another 500 revs to keep the speed up.

We are travellers by water, not purist sailors. Our boat has averaged 3.24 lires per hour including the generator and webasto use. Not bad for a 110HP Yanmar and Mitsubishi powered 8KW genset. The latter is only used a hour or two each day. This gives a morning tank of hot water for showers and gives the house bank a kick. Passage speed average 6.38 KTS over the 3800 NM's we have travelled in her during the last two and a half seasons.

We only had shore power on our last trip twice, in Cherbourg and Dartmouth. Most nights were spent on inexpensive Harbourmaster pontoons or moorings or at anchor.

I cocked up the passage plan across Weymouth Bay and hit foul tide for most of the trip.

First Mate gave me a real earbending...............................

Our boat is a Motorsailer-so that is what we do. Use a little engine to get closer to the wind and assist the performance of the fairly small rig.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Interesting comments and there’s no simple one answer. We’re currently in Trébeurden and got up this morning thinking we would slip out as soon as the Marina Cill automatically lowered. The intention was to sail to Tréguier 28 miles away and just about doable in one tide.

Thick mist/fog sees me lying on my bunk thinking 12 miles round to Perros-Guirec is a better plan. What’s worse is that the 10 knots from the N has become 5-7 knots from the East. We’ll try and sail a bit but we’ve been here three nights (one at anchor and two in the marina) and would like a change of scenery... I guess we’ll be burning some more diesel at this rate.

Life’s full of choices but sailing going nowhere against a foul tide is a choice I try to avoid. I once in my early skippering days watched Hartland point for six hours while we barely moved. Never again.

In case anyone is interested, yesterday didn’t turn out quite as planned.

The sun started shining through the thick mist at about 1030 and lots of people started to move including us. We slipped and motored out and within half a mile we’re in thick fog again. Radar on and plotter and GPS doing overtime we feel our way N and up to the passage to the East towards Perros Guirec. Visibility improves sometimes but is patchy. We sail for a mile or two and then the wind drops. By the time we’re at Perros Guirec it’s dead on HW as we approach the harbour wall. We then discover that this is one of the days when the tidal coefficient is so low that they shut the gate at HW. We arrive as one boat is leaving and the gate is closed. Ho hum... we try and pick up some diesel but the French auto pay machine doesn’t like any of our cards.

We then end up doing what I really don’t enjoy; motoring against a foul tide as the next place of interest (ignoring Port Blanc) is round to Tréguier. En route we decant one of our twenty litre jerry fans of spare fuel into the tank. Except that means getting it from undeneath the Kipor generator in the bottom of the cockpit locker and discovering that the siphon device to get fuel from can to tank has got a split in it. Wipe split area with acetone and tape it up. It works for a few moments and stops. There’s another split. More acetone and tape and it puts twenty litres into the tank very efficiently. We get hot soapy water to clean up the mess that shouldn’t have been made if it had all worked...

It’s now hot and sunny and I suppose clearing up helped pass the time... Tréguier is beautiful as ever and we find four boats in the Anchorage we usually use. We spend a very peaceful night at anchor in the river.

 

[KAL]

In case anyone is interested, yesterday didn’t turn out quite as planned.

The sun started shining through the thick mist at about 1030 and lots of people started to move including us. We slipped and motored out and within half a mile we’re in thick fog again. Radar on and plotter and GPS doing overtime we feel our way N and up to the passage to the East towards Perros Guirec. Visibility improves sometimes but is patchy. We sail for a mile or two and then the wind drops. By the time we’re at Perros Guirec it’s dead on HW as we approach the harbour wall. We then discover that this is one of the days when the tidal coefficient is so low that they shut the gate at HW. We arrive as one boat is leaving and the gate is closed. Ho hum... we try and pick up some diesel but the French auto pay machine doesn’t like any of our cards.

We then end up doing what I really don’t enjoy; motoring against a foul tide as the next place of interest (ignoring Port Blanc) is round to Tréguier. En route we decant one of our twenty litre jerry fans of spare fuel into the tank. Except that means getting it from undeneath the Kipor generator in the bottom of the cockpit locker and discovering that the siphon device to get fuel from can to tank has got a split in it. Wipe split area with acetone and tape it up. It works for a few moments and stops. There’s another split. More acetone and tape and it puts twenty litres into the tank very efficiently. We get hot soapy water to clean up the mess that shouldn’t have been made if it had all worked...

It’s now hot and sunny and I suppose clearing up helped pass the time... Tréguier is beautiful as ever and we find four boats in the Anchorage we usually use. We spend a very peaceful night at anchor in the river.

I was going to suggest spending some time on Île Molène if you wanted a change and the chance of finding a cowrie or two.

 

[GHA]

we try and pick up some diesel but the French auto pay machine doesn’t like any of our cards. .

Slight drift, but for a fiver I've been using a revolute card which can have many currencies. Or actually haven't cos the card's sitting in the UK but using a virtual card to transfer Euros direct to a Portuguese bank for free. Might be worth a look.

 

[jimi]

I like sailing and part of that pleasure is optimising VMG to a destination whether by trimming sails, optimising tides etc etc the calculation of it all as well as the execution is part of the pleasure. Crossing the North Sea singlehanded watching shooting stars in a clear moonless sky 48 hours ago is an experience few people have the privilege of experiencing, I'm still buzzing ;-)

 

[john_morris_uk]

I was going to suggest spending some time on Île Molène if you wanted a change and the chance of finding a cowrie or two.

It’s a lovely place but we need to be moving East slowly. Not sure about cowries but we’ve harvested and eaten lots of Moules from Île Molène in the past. Yum yum.