Do you always have a life raft for occasional cross channel trip ?

Interesting discussing about risk assessments going on here. Just a bit more to add on my experience from organising diving expeditions. Once completed the risk assessments were then considered by the adventurous training supervisory staff. If they were not content with the mitigation and control measures and planning for remediation, then the expedition would not be approved. After all, the aim of adventurous training is to be adventurous but not to take unnecessary risks. Surely this is the sort of process that we all do as skippers when we decide to set off on a trip or not?
 
capnsensible said:
Of course I am a good skipper, I sail for a living. In excess of 130,000 miles of yachting has made me quite capable of deciding that I will properly equip a yacht for sea. But thank you for your advice......

Actually, I sailed across the Straits of Gibraltar today, from Ceuta in N Africa to Estepona, Spain. We travelled nearly forty miles on a well found yacht, complete with liferaft, life jackets, flares, VHF radio switched on. You know, all the things people tell me aren't necessary on here.

Go careful out there.......:encouragement:
Click to expand...

Don't recall anybody saying all these things are unnecessary. The debate is about whether a liferaft is necessary for sailing in the English channel. There is little evidence that it is necessary, but of course you can ignore that and carry one if you wish. Thousands, and thousands of people have crossed the English channel and not needed a liferaft, and a large proportion of those would not have had one anyway.

Just out of interest, in all the zillions of miles you have sailed, how many times have you used either lifejacket, flares or your liferaft in anger?
 
I've sailed the Channel and North Sea numerous times, and the only times I had a liferaft were the crossings on a ferry.

I'd rather have a liferaft than not, because I occasionally get the creeps thinking about ending up in the water. But like many on here, I think a liferaft's a long way down the list of things that can be used or done to make it safer.

However, I don't have to worry about quite how far down the list it is, because it's out of the question. Whereas for some people liferafts are cheap, for me they are not that far short of the value of my boat. For me the choice is between a boat with no liferaft, or a liferaft with no boat, and that's not a difficult choice to make!

To look at the problem the other way round, if I were serious about trying to avoid death, I'd give up motorcycling (and probably cycling), various other 'bad' habits, and my stressful job. I'd also avoid driving cars as much as possible, and where unavoidable I'd go everywhere at least 10mph below the speed limit.:D
 
Well I did not do a formal risk assessment when I bought my life raft.

I started thinking about the idea because I was considering entering the Oregon Offshore. Its one of the requirements. I did not enter the race. It didn't fit my schedule but I sailed the route. And thought the 1500 bucks was a good idea. I waited an entire year before I bought a nice inflatable. For half the price. Stupid maybe?
I have sailed many boats for many years without a life raft. I have never need one. I have never needed a life jacket, Flares, DSC, PLB, EPIRB, Life Sling, Dan Buoy or many other bits and pieces.
Which is entirely irrelevant.
I got the raft because it made us feel better about the voyage. In particular it made my wife feel better about the voyage. Which was important. She is quite willing to let me take whatever risk I like.

I am insured she will do quite well:)

But in order to take one of her young with me or the dog a life raft was required.

We all do some kind of informal risk assessment every time we leave the dock. which is a completely subjective process of our own. The answer we come up with is valid for ourselves.

Formal risk assessments. Come in different varieties. Like others here I partake in the process from time to time during my working life. Regardless of the version I find them all to be subjective in the end.
The high power oil industry version or a simple one we give to new young workers.
Not the oil industry anymore. While some companies may not have acceptable risk levels I certainly question some oil industry decisions. Despite the risk assessments.

We started doing them after "Bad Shit" happened. Very often and in our case investigating the "Bad Shit" after the fact. It was easy to determine it could easily have been prevented. If we had done some investigating before hand.
So we have tried a few different versions. Including getting experts from the oil industry to train us to do risk assessments.

All of them are based on how likely I think "Shit happens" . Compared to how "bad" I think shit would be. In the end just a tool to express or subjectively quantify my opinion.
I can do it by myself or get a room full of experts. So I get a subjective expert opinion.

We have a real pretty multi colored one we give to all our folks. Green yellow orange and red. Great, Not so good, A bit dodgy. and Bad.
A Compared to. will happen lots of times. Will happen a few times, hardly ever happen, Almost never will happen.

You can have 5 choices of each if you like or more even more if your really into it. If you want to find out if "God Making Green apples would be bit risky".

So the risk to be assessed is. Sailing across the channel without a life raft.

It is so unlikely my boat will sink on the way across the "Channel" it will almost never happen. But it would be really really bad if it did.

Should I get a life raft.

Your Choice. I respect your right and freedom to come up with your own answer.
 
capnsensible said:
No.

Because I don't have a defibrillator or crash helmets.

Do you have them? Is there a type that you would recommend? What advantages have you found in carrying them?

It does sound as though it would be a good idea.
Click to expand...

I don't have either, but then I don't have a liferaft either. I would certainly think about a defibrillator if I was sailing with anyone (including myself) at significant risk of a heart attack and the lack of crash helmet is pure and unjustifiable vanity, since wearing them routinely would probably be the single biggest safety improvement the sailing community could make.
 
Tranona said:
Don't recall anybody saying all these things are unnecessary. The debate is about whether a liferaft is necessary for sailing in the English channel. There is little evidence that it is necessary, but of course you can ignore that and carry one if you wish. Thousands, and thousands of people have crossed the English channel and not needed a liferaft, and a large proportion of those would not have had one anyway.

Just out of interest, in all the zillions of miles you have sailed, how many times have you used either lifejacket, flares or your liferaft in anger?
Click to expand...

There have been many threads on here over the years on the same old topic of trying to justify not carrying various safety equipment. I am sure you could search for a short time to find a few.

However, not to worry. It's individual choice as had been mentioned. In many, many channel crossings at all times of year, I always carried a liferaft. On one occasion, I delivered a yacht to Le Havre with a borrowed liferaft and fetched it back on the ferry. That was 'interesting'.

Life jackets? Wore them yesterday, will again today in a brisk NE wind and bumpy sea.

Have seen flares used, know a couple of people who have had to abandon to liferaft, one after boat caught fire. Assisted breakdowns that would have resulted in lee shore wrecking. Seen a yacht catch fire at anchor. Seen a yacht smashed onto rocks, etc. it's my trade to go to sea so I take safety very seriously.

Nothing to beat it though really..........
 
capnsensible said:
I think it's only a matter of time before they will be a requirement on coded boats. Not a bad idea at all. Thanks for the link.
Click to expand...

I was astonished to learn (at a First Aid for Work course, aimed at outdoor activities providers) just how big a difference a defibrillator makes. In rough terms it increase survival chances from about 5% to about 30%. They are also amazingly easy to use.
 
capnsensible said:
I think it's only a matter of time before they will be a requirement on coded boats. Not a bad idea at all. Thanks for the link.
Click to expand...

It's the same basic cost benefit question, how many heart attacks happen on (coded) boats? Perhaps radar would be a better investment and mandatory addition on coded boats. It would not surprise me if RYA sea schools will have to fit radar in the future. Anyway, this is thread drift territory.
 
To the OP I say, the greatest danger you face is your own inexperience. By not pushing your experience envelope through a cross channel passage due to a concern that your yacht lacks a liferaft you remain stuck on the baseline of inexperience.
 
key point.
I can decide my own level of risk for myself.
When you are in charge of other people be it 1 or lots.
For crew I am less willing to accept a risk which might be ok for me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top