Do you always have a life raft for occasional cross channel trip ?

[derekgillard]

I'm considering a cross channel trip shortly, I have all the safety gear except life raft.

In the past I've rented one but without a cradle to fit it in the thing has always been in the way and I've often wondered how quickly I could deploy it if needed. Now the company I've rented from is no longer in Business. I'm reluctant to buy one for at most a once in a year trip

Some advice I've been given is a fully inflated dinghy on the roof flares, DSC VHF etc etc is sufficient. In the end it's my decision but what is the view of the forum on this?

Finally does anyone recommend a renter of life rafts (Eastern Solent area) ?

Regards del Buoy

 

[Dockhead]

You won't last long in that cold water, if your boat sinks. On the other hand, the rescue services are second to none and you are in helicopter range in the whole Channel. Do you feel lucky?

Why do you think only going cross-Channel requires a life raft? I would no sooner want to be dog-paddling in the cold water, five miles off Portland Bill, than I would out in the Channel somewhere. I would buy a life raft and keep in on board at all times. They are not all that expensive.

But in the end of course it is entirely up to you.

 

[bedouin]

The advice always used to be that a partially inflated dinghy was adequate for crossing the channel, and I would be happy with that.

You don't mention PLB/EPIRB but I regard those as higher priority. With a PLB in the channel you can reasonably expect to be requested within a few hours, which is survivable in the water with proper clothing and LJs, and for that period of time an inflatable is pretty much as good as a liferaft - particularly in the conditions you are likely to be crossing the channel in.

 

[Tranona]

The advice always used to be that a partially inflated dinghy was adequate for crossing the channel, and I would be happy with that.

There is no evidence that works. Read the accounts of liferaft deployment and you will soon see why. Almost all deployments are in extreme circumstances when even launching a proper raft can be problematic. Imagine trying to unstrap a part inflated dinghy, pump up the deflated part, then try to launch from a sinking boat, probably with a gale of wind blowing.

If you feel the need to have a survival capsule, then get the proper thing. Imperfect though they are they at least give you a chance.

 

[Dockhead]

The advice always used to be that a partially inflated dinghy was adequate for crossing the channel, and I would be happy with that.

You don't mention PLB/EPIRB but I regard those as higher priority. With a PLB in the channel you can reasonably expect to be requested within a few hours, which is survivable in the water with proper clothing and LJs, and for that period of time an inflatable is pretty much as good as a liferaft - particularly in the conditions you are likely to be crossing the channel in.

The dinghy is suitable as a life raft in settled weather only -- N.B. In any kind of strong weather, it's a death-trap.


Concerning PLB/EPIRB -- the response is much slower than by DSC. Certainly a good idea to have a PLB (I keep one tethered in my life jacket), but priority in a sinking or other dire emergency is getting a DSC call off and talking with the CG. Much faster response. With a decently installed VHF, you are in range of the UK Coast Guard from almost anywhere in the Channel. I've had radio checks from Cherbourg Harbour answered "weak but readable" by Solent Coast Guard -- at 1 watt reduced power.

It's worth understanding how the GMDSS system works, when an EPIRB/PLB is activated:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...appens-how-to-improve-rescue-odds-146617.html

http://www.cruisingworld.com/how/increase-your-odds-after-activating-epirb


Best case for rescue assets being launched after an EPIRB/PLB call is probably five hours, according to these articles. With a DSC call to the Coast Guard, it might be a matter of minutes.

With that in mind, a DSC VHF handheld is an awfully good thing to have with you if you have to abandon ship. You might not be able to reach the Coast Guard 30 miles away, but you will be able to set off an alarm on the bridge of passing ships.

 

[bedouin]

There is no evidence that works. Read the accounts of liferaft deployment and you will soon see why. Almost all deployments are in extreme circumstances when even launching a proper raft can be problematic. Imagine trying to unstrap a part inflated dinghy, pump up the deflated part, then try to launch from a sinking boat, probably with a gale of wind blowing.

If you feel the need to have a survival capsule, then get the proper thing. Imperfect though they are they at least give you a chance.

The point of it being part inflated is that it has sufficient air in it to support you without further inflation - and if it is strapped to the coachroof then taking a knife to the straps is very little harder than trying to deploy a liferaft in a canister from the same location although you can't make it float free and auto deploy.

As for doing that in a gale - these days there is no reason to get caught out in a gale on a cross channel trip - weather forecasts are plentiful and sufficiently reliable.

The fact is thousands of boats cross the channel each year - and I can only remember hearing about 1 or 2 cases of the liferaft being deployed on a cross channel trip in the last 10 years. We have to get these things in perspective - even without a Liferaft by far the most dangerous part of a cross-channel crossing is driving down to the boat.

 

[johnalison]

We got our first liferaft in about 2001, having crossed the Channel/North Sea since 1978. We used to rely on the semi-dinghy, but in our defence I would say that liferafts were very expensive in those days, and it was hard to find one for less than £1200 or so. I would not presume to criticise anyone for setting off without one, even if we all agree that they are a good idea. As the OP says, it's his choice, and rafts are very seldom necessary, especially for those of us who confine themselves to sailing in summer, and even then, resorting to a raft was often unnecessary in the Fastnet disaster.

 

[tcm]

The point of it being part inflated is that it has sufficient air in it to support you without further inflation - and if it is strapped to the coachroof then taking a knife to the straps is very little harder than trying to deploy a liferaft in a canister from the same location although you can't make it float free and auto deploy.

As for doing that in a gale - these days there is no reason to get caught out in a gale on a cross channel trip - weather forecasts are plentiful and sufficiently reliable.

The fact is thousands of boats cross the channel each year - and I can only remember hearing about 1 or 2 cases of the liferaft being deployed on a cross channel trip in the last 10 years. We have to get these things in perspective - even without a Liferaft by far the most dangerous part of a cross-channel crossing is driving down to the boat.

No need for a liferaft UNLESS you need a liferaft. I think perhaps you could dodge having the liferaft if singlehanded, otherwise meh, not really.

 

[bedouin]

The dinghy is suitable as a life raft in settled weather only -- N.B. In any kind of strong weather, it's a death-trap.


Concerning PLB/EPIRB -- the response is much slower than by DSC. Certainly a good idea to have a PLB (I keep one tethered in my life jacket), but priority in a sinking or other dire emergency is getting a DSC call off and talking with the CG. Much faster response.

I was assuming reasonable weather.

DSC may be better than PLB if you can use it - but if you have time to get off a DSC from your fixed VHF then it is not a catastrophic failure and a handheld VHF is pretty much useless if you are in the water.

Each of us is different - but the only equipment I would insist on before crossing the channel is Oilies, LJ (with sprayhood and thigh straps) and the PLB attached to same.

 

[Tranona]

The point of it being part inflated is that it has sufficient air in it to support you without further inflation - and if it is strapped to the coachroof then taking a knife to the straps is very little harder than trying to deploy a liferaft in a canister from the same location although you can't make it float free and auto deploy.

As for doing that in a gale - these days there is no reason to get caught out in a gale on a cross channel trip - weather forecasts are plentiful and sufficiently reliable.

The fact is thousands of boats cross the channel each year - and I can only remember hearing about 1 or 2 cases of the liferaft being deployed on a cross channel trip in the last 10 years. We have to get these things in perspective - even without a Liferaft by far the most dangerous part of a cross-channel crossing is driving down to the boat.

All very good reasons for not bothering with a liferaft at all if you don't think you will ever need it.

Your faith in a half inflated dinghy is totally misplaced - and no person who knows anything about rescue and survival at sea would ever recommend such as strategy.

 

[pmagowan]

Why would you need a liferaft? 2 main reasons: boat sinks or boat is on fire.

Boats dont spontaneously sink so make sure your boat is sound and have a bilge water alarm. Reduce the risk of fire and have extinguishers. Then if you have a dingy you have a way off in such emergencies and as long as you have a method of raising alarm then even in the worst case scenarios you are unlikely to be in your dinghy for very long. Have a good grab bag. Think about PLBs or Epirbs.

I carry a liferaft because I have one but it is stored down below because there is no room up above. I question its value. You need to do your own risk assessment and determine what you are comfortable with. Ask yourself how many people have crossed the channel and how many have needed a liferaft!

 

[bedouin]

All very good reasons for not bothering with a liferaft at all if you don't think you will ever need it.

Your faith in a half inflated dinghy is totally misplaced - and no person who knows anything about rescue and survival at sea would ever recommend such as strategy.

Since you know so much about it can you tell me how many lives have been saved in the last 10 years as a result of deploying a liferaft on a cross channel trip that would have been lost with only a lifejacket and PLB?

The advice is not mine but used to be that given by RYA about 15 years ago.

 

[Dockhead]

The point of it being part inflated is that it has sufficient air in it to support you without further inflation - and if it is strapped to the coachroof then taking a knife to the straps is very little harder than trying to deploy a liferaft in a canister from the same location although you can't make it float free and auto deploy.

As for doing that in a gale - these days there is no reason to get caught out in a gale on a cross channel trip - weather forecasts are plentiful and sufficiently reliable.

The fact is thousands of boats cross the channel each year - and I can only remember hearing about 1 or 2 cases of the liferaft being deployed on a cross channel trip in the last 10 years. We have to get these things in perspective - even without a Liferaft by far the most dangerous part of a cross-channel crossing is driving down to the boat.

Yes, I agree with you that your odds of not needing a life raft are quite good. Hence my original question -- "do you feel lucky?"

But if you don't want to rely on those fairly decent odds, then it's better to take more serious measures, which will work in a variety of conditions. A life raft is an awfully good thing to have in these cold waters. Very unlikely you'll ever need it, but if you ever do need it, then you REALLY need it.


I guess I wouldn't bother with it just for one Channel crossing, however. So I wouldn't rent one like the OP proposes. You get some risk mitigation effect from having it on board at all times, but not much from just one trip.

 

[RupertW]

Yes, I agree with you that your odds of not needing a life raft are quite good. Hence my original question -- "do you feel lucky?"

But if you don't want to rely on those fairly decent odds, then it's better to take more serious measures, which will work in a variety of conditions. A life raft is an awfully good thing to have in these cold waters. Very unlikely you'll ever need it, but if you ever do need it, then you REALLY need it.


I guess I wouldn't bother with it just for one Channel crossing, however. So I wouldn't rent one like the OP proposes. You get some risk mitigation effect from having it on board at all times, but not much from just one trip.

The figures for yachties who have survived due to their liferaft seems to be vanishingly small - possibly smaller than those whose yachts have been found abandoned and slightly afloat but no crew or liferaft to be seen. So logically a liferaft should be far far down a list of training and equipment to prevent boat loss in the first place. So far down that by pure risk assessment logic that you would never get to buy it before the boat was already full of better stuff.

But I admit we inherited one and got it serviced a year or two ago - it's sits up on the coach roof and I suppose its main job is a a slight spray breaker. I would buy an Epirb for an ocean crossing, and keep thinking about PLBs but generally only end up spending money on things which prevent problems, not deal with their aftermath.

 

[Poignard]

I've never had one. I started sailing before they were invented and never felt that I needed such a thing. There is no more need for one now they have been invented.

 

[RupertW]

I've never had one. I started sailing before they were invented and never felt that I needed such a thing. There is no more need for one now they have been invented.

That's also true for cars, anaesthetics and antibiotics, but I take your point as there is an obvious need for those things, but not so for a liferaft.

 

[Poignard]

That's also true for cars, anaesthetics and antibiotics, but I take your point as there is an obvious need for those things, but not so for a liferaft.

I'm not against them. I did an Atlantic crossing years ago and, if I'd have thought about it, I would have been glad to know we had one onboard. But for crossing the Channel, I wouldn't bother.

 

[derekgillard]

I thought this would star a debate, for the record I have DSC radio.

 

[johnalison]

I thought this would star a debate, for the record I have DSC radio.

Good luck with your crossing. I don't think that any amount of "safety" equipment is as important as having a sound boat, a sound crew, and a skipper who has checked everything necessary and who has the right degree of judgement and luck. Competent people tend to be luckier than the others.

 

[Uricanejack]

If it makes you feel better get one. I have one for the placebo effect. It keeps my wife happy. Do I need it? I sincerely hope not.
It was on sale and I was doing a short offshore trip. So now I have one just for pottering about.
I have one now. I was quite happy without one. Now I am a bit happier with one.
I really liked the old Sadler idea of enough reserve buoyancy so the boat won't sink. No body makes them any more so I guess it never caught on. Boats are surprisingly hard to sink. But they do occasionally burn or get run over or hit rocks.
Cruise Ships and ferries don't sink or burst into flames very often but they still have to have life boats and or life rafts JIK.

I guess that's what its for JIK.

Your Boat, Your Life, Your Choice.
Your crew? Their Choice is to come. Or not?