Do this skin fitting and valve need replacing?

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Albert Ross

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This is a skin fitting on a 5 year old Jeanneau 36i

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I dont know if it's brass or bronze.
Should I replace it?
Thanks for your comments
 
Both brass, and will need replacing in due course. Doesn't automatically mean they're about to disintegrate, though.

Pete
 
flat1 said:
This is a skin fitting on a 5 year old Jeanneau 36i

I dont know if it's brass or bronze.
Should I replace it?
Thanks for your comments
Click to expand...

flat1 said:
or this one ?
Click to expand...


You need to look at them where they are contact with the water. If they are turning pink it would suggest that they arae ordinary brass rather than DZR or bronze/gunmetal.

If any pink colouration is more than just surface deep the fitting should be replaced.

See Vyv Cox's website for examples and info on bronzes, brasses and dezincification http://coxengineering.sharepoint.com/Pages/BrassandBronze.aspx
 
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There is no easy answer as it is almost impossible to tell with certainty what material your skin fittings, valves and tails are made of. I have taken the tough decision to replace them all as mine looked worse than yours and I just couldn't sleep easy at night.
 
flat1 said:
Thank you.

This is the view from outside.

P1020539.jpg
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That looks like it is above the waterline. If so, it's unlikely to be suffering from dezincification. I'd say that one will be OK.
The other one looks clean too. That looks like a bit of sawdust that has accumulated around the through hull fitting. Check the outside of that one if it is below the waterline.
 
Almost certainly brass. The first one looks plated - sure sign it is brass. The green discolouration is not in itself a problem, but the skin fitting looks to be dezincifying. Scrape the surface to see if it is bright underneath or looking pink.
 
VicS said:
You need to look at them where they are contact with the water. If they are turning pink it would suggest that they arae ordinary brass rather than DZR or bronze/gunmetal.

If any pink colouration is more than just surface deep the fitting should be replaced.

See Vyv Cox's website for examples and info on bronzes, brasses and dezincification http://coxengineering.sharepoint.com/Pages/BrassandBronze.aspx
Click to expand...

The tail will certainly be brass unless it has been changed since new. That's the most vulnerable part people tend to find crumbling away. Fortunately, it's easy to dismantle and check.

The valve will also be brass but the body has more metal than the tail and is less likely to fail before the tail. However, quite a few owners have reported the stem parting company from the ball and then can't actually open or close the valve (i.e. It sticks open, closed or somewhere between).

The elbows on my Jeanneau seemed to be better quality than the brass tails but I couldn't confirm material of construction.
Ditto with the skin-fitting but it looks like even better quality than the elbow (doesn't mean it's good quality, just less bad looking).

I haven't seen any worrying signs on my 2009 42DS after 5 seasons (only in water 50% of that time). Skin-fittings seem fine on surface and inside. Elbows look fine on outside and as far as I can see inside (brushing back to clean metal). I'm due to dismantle 1-2 again this winter to check condition.

I was heartened by the condition of items I dismantled in 2010/11. Disappointed by the quality of course but surprised at absence of any problems.

N.B. I'm probably on shorepower for equivalent of 4-6 weeks each year but do run a generator on board once every 1-2 weeks.

Pictures taken after 3 seasons http://www.mistroma1.webspace.virginmedia.com/SeacockEngine.html
I must update the page regarding condition of valves in forward heads, but all parts looked fine apart. I did replace those valves before putting bits back together.

I've only looked at fittings below the waterline. I wouldn't expect to have any problems with those and even if I did it's not exactly on same scale as a failure below the waterline.
 
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Are both above the waterline? If so, and assuming they're working freely, I'd just keep an eye on them on a regular (but not neurotic) basis. When eventually replaced, both could do with proper backing pads.

As said, the valve at the very least is ordinary brass. Worth repeating from Vyv Cox's website: he has never encountered chrome-plated DZR. So if it's silvery and not stainless steel, it's plain old brass. (And if there's a 100 to 1 chance that it isn't, are you going to bet on it?)
 
On a 2005 Jeanneau I had similar skin fittings, the underwater seacocks on mine looked somewhere between your two photos last autumn, not quite as shiny as the top photo but not nearly as green as the lower photo. On mine wet and dry polishing the outside faces of the skin fittings showed some blotches of pink. I removed them all, having to cut them away with an angle grinder, and in every case where I cut found that the pink dezincification was confined to the very surface. The only place I found definite dezincification was on the hose tails, two of the four of which were in very poor condition, crumbling if squeezed with pliers. These hose tails were definitely a different pinker brass than the seacocks or skin fittings. One seacock also had a steel handle which was starting to rust a bit. The only anodes on my boat are on the prop nut and propshaft.

Having had to cut the skin fittings to get them off I had no choice but to replace: fitted all new bronze skin fittings and all new valves with S/S handles from Seaware, plus bronze hose tails. The problem with the original brass fittings is that you cannot trust them, and on my boat at least getting 3 out of 4 out without cutting was impossible.
 
There is nothing in the appearance of either that suggests they are in need of replacement right now. It could be worth checking that the valves actually do anything, as it sometimes happens that the ball or the stem connection corrodes away. I would remove the valves when ashore in the winter, check that they and the hose tails, skin fittings and elbows are OK, without significant dezincification, and if so, put them back. Check in particular that the threaded parts, where the metal is at its thinnest, are in good condition. I have a plated (brass) valve on my galley drain that I know is at least 18 years old, it is normally below sea level and still operates.

Most people who have suffered potentially hazardous failures of seacocks have done so when they leaned on or knocked them. The best instantaneous test of integrity is to give a good heave on the hose adjacent to the fitting, after taking appropriate precautions in case it does break.
 
Thank you all for your comments and advice.
Mistroma's website and of course Vyv's and its associated links are all really useful resources .. thank you.
I will dismantle and remove and replace the 2" skin fitting and valve from the heads because it is forever jamming and is something of a pain anyway.
I will check the hose tails on one or two other fittings and give them all a good heave as instructed this winter.

Any recommendations for suppliers of DZR fittings .. are a.s.a.p. as good as anyone?
 
flat1 said:
Thank you all for your comments and advice.
Mistroma's website and of course Vyv's and its associated links are all really useful resources .. thank you.
I will dismantle and remove and replace the 2" skin fitting and valve from the heads because it is forever jamming and is something of a pain anyway.
I will check the hose tails on one or two other fittings and give them all a good heave as instructed this winter.

Any recommendations for suppliers of DZR fittings .. are a.s.a.p. as good as anyone?
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Yes ASAP are fine. Know what they are talking about. Did all mine on a previous boat, all purchased from them. I had to cut mine off as well, so be prepared for this!
 
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