Do people bother with liferafts for coastal & cross Channel?

[Pete7]

Looks a bit nasty in the Channel tonight, liferaft in the cockpit might be called for.

Pete

 

[Tranona]

I agree with you but you missed my point about the dinghy being useful in a MOB situation if you have a high freeboard. That, IMO, is the most likely scenario where my raft would be used.

Don't have a problem with that. Obviously there are situations where a dinghy has its uses. However, a substitute for a proper liferaft is not one of them.

 

[Tranona]

My observation (from a limited dataset) is that people who feel responsible for small kids seem to be more likely to have a liferaft.

Having read the reports of the '79 Fastnet, and practised using a liferaft in a sea survival course, I think I'd work very hard to avoid ever having to use one.

Interesting observations. Again if you look at the reported incidents what you don't find is any that involve children. Mum and dad + 2.4 on their summer cruise do not feature in survival situations - at least in coastal waters, although there are some examples (Douglas family comes to mind) of ocean founderings have involved children.

It is much more instructive to see what is missing from the data rather than what is there. For example, no family groups, very few MOBOs, very few charter boats - and this applies not just to actual loss of boats but serious incidents that result in an report. Obviously these missing groups are not immune from incidents that could lead to something more serious, but the data from the RNLI and MCA on "rescues" does not allow any meaningful analysis to identify categories and causes.

Having done a sea survival course agree totally with your last observation.

 

[Sans Bateau]

how much is a new one
http://www.mailspeedmarine.com/6-ma...SeaGo~1414973628~32025078994~seago liferaft~b

I ran this pasta calculator, just to make sure, I reckon that'll be a saving of in the region of 500 quid then.

 

[prv]

I ran this pasta calculator, just to make sure

For a moment I genuinely wondered what there was to calculate about making pasta

Pete

 

[BruceDanforth]

Trying your hardest not to sink in the first place is probably prudent.

 

[prv]

Trying your hardest not to sink in the first place is probably prudent.

+1

Does anyone else have a "damage control" bag on board?

Kindred Spirit was Cornish built like an absolute tank, plus the lower parts of the hull (and higher in the bow area) were filled with solid resin stuffed with steel scrap ballast. So I was fairly relaxed about hitting anything in her. Ariam is not under-built by any means, fairly normal for a late 90s AWB, but she feels lightweight by comparison. So, having recently re-watched the Crash Test Boat holing videos, I decided to assemble a bag of kit to tuck away in the emergency locker in case we ever find the water rising round our ankles. Contents include:

• A 4'x6' plastic tarpaulin, with ropes already tied to the corners, to pull over a hole from the outside. Big enough to cover any hole short of ripping the boat practically in half, but small enough to be able to handle in a hurry.
• A 2'x2' square of heavy rubber, to help seal over a hole from the inside. I'd back this with one of the saloon cushions, to form to the hull shape, then a plywood locker lid to press it all down.
• A 2'6" carpenter's clamp, reassembled in reverse so that it pushes outwards. Intended for holding a patch or bung against a hole, something they struggled to improvise in the video.
• Some extra softwood plugs, only because I found them on board after I already had some.
• Some really sticky squidgy rubberised roof-sealing tape
• A tub of plumber's putty. Copied from that American leak-sealing gunge, which appears to be much the same stuff.
• A tin of expanding foam. Not sure how useful this would be with a wet gap, but perhaps if pre-preparing a patch or sealing a hole above the waterline.
• A couple of wooden battens, pre-drilled with holes at intervals. Idea being to use them across the inside of a lost hatch or window (we have a fair bit of coachroof window area) and bolt down a locker lid against them from the outside.
• Pack of long bolts (studding with locked nuts on), nuts, big washers etc for putting the above plan into action.
• Spanners and a saw (folding pruning saw) for rigging the above without having to ferret in the bottom of the tool locker at the other end of the boat.
• Hatchet and screwdrivers for chopping away / neatly removing any sections of furniture that may be in the way of a hole.

This sounds like a lot of stuff, but with the tarpaulin tightly rolled and the rubber sheet curled around the outside of it all, it fits into a medium-sized toolbag in a locker in the forepeak (near where any hole is most likely). Doubt I'll ever need it, but it's reassuring to have an answer to the question "what if?"

I'm going to see if I can squeeze in a bigger bilge pump this winter, too.

Pete

 

[BlueChip]

cheaper to buy a new seago or try to get a better / lighter one from the forum or talk with Graham at Suffolk Sailing, Gt Blakenham

+1 - he is totally honest and reliable

 

[Elessar]

Trying your hardest not to sink in the first place is probably prudent.

As has been accurately said many times on this thread, liferafts are not about sinking, well probably not anyway. Are you sure your nautical risk assessment is up to scratch? I don't think it is.

 

[Elessar]

+1

Does anyone else have a "damage control" bag on board?

Kindred Spirit was Cornish built like an absolute tank, plus the lower parts of the hull (and higher in the bow area) were filled with solid resin stuffed with steel scrap ballast. So I was fairly relaxed about hitting anything in her. Ariam is not under-built by any means, fairly normal for a late 90s AWB, but she feels lightweight by comparison. So, having recently re-watched the Crash Test Boat holing videos, I decided to assemble a bag of kit to tuck away in the emergency locker in case we ever find the water rising round our ankles. Contents include:

• A 4'x6' plastic tarpaulin, with ropes already tied to the corners, to pull over a hole from the outside. Big enough to cover any hole short of ripping the boat practically in half, but small enough to be able to handle in a hurry.
• A 2'x2' square of heavy rubber, to help seal over a hole from the inside. I'd back this with one of the saloon cushions, to form to the hull shape, then a plywood locker lid to press it all down.
• A 2'6" carpenter's clamp, reassembled in reverse so that it pushes outwards. Intended for holding a patch or bung against a hole, something they struggled to improvise in the video.
• Some extra softwood plugs, only because I found them on board after I already had some.
• Some really sticky squidgy rubberised roof-sealing tape
• A tub of plumber's putty. Copied from that American leak-sealing gunge, which appears to be much the same stuff.
• A tin of expanding foam. Not sure how useful this would be with a wet gap, but perhaps if pre-preparing a patch or sealing a hole above the waterline.
• A couple of wooden battens, pre-drilled with holes at intervals. Idea being to use them across the inside of a lost hatch or window (we have a fair bit of coachroof window area) and bolt down a locker lid against them from the outside.
• Pack of long bolts (studding with locked nuts on), nuts, big washers etc for putting the above plan into action.
• Spanners and a saw (folding pruning saw) for rigging the above without having to ferret in the bottom of the tool locker at the other end of the boat.
• Hatchet and screwdrivers for chopping away / neatly removing any sections of furniture that may be in the way of a hole.

This sounds like a lot of stuff, but with the tarpaulin tightly rolled and the rubber sheet curled around the outside of it all, it fits into a medium-sized toolbag in a locker in the forepeak (near where any hole is most likely). Doubt I'll ever need it, but it's reassuring to have an answer to the question "what if?"

I'm going to see if I can squeeze in a bigger bilge pump this winter, too.

Pete

all good common sense stuff. What's that got to do with the liferaft decision, as it makes little change to your chances of using it?

 

[Tomahawk]

In the entrance to the Royal Burnam ... there is a photo of a members yacht... Well there are always photos of memberrs yachts in a clubhouse..

Except that said members yacht is parked (aground) on the Sunken Buxey sand... decks awash and water lapping over the coach roof..

The widdow maker is staring you in the face every time you step on a boat...

 

[prv]

all good common sense stuff. What's that got to do with the liferaft decision, as it makes little change to your chances of using it?

Thread drift. Ed said "try your hardest not to sink", this is me trying.

Pete

 

[Uricanejack]

PRV:

Good list.

If somebody is on medication, or on the pill, a spare supply might be necessary.

Can't say I know much about survival in a life raft. I would not have thought an unplanned pregnancy to be a major concern.

 

[cliff]

IMHO if your out at sea you should have a life raft.

Can you explain then why the majority of Sadler and all Etap yachts are rated for offshore sailing without a life raft being required? Surely if the powers that be dealing with boat certification held the same opinion as you the Sadlers and Etaps would require life rafts for offshore sailing.

 

[cliff]

This would probably be the ideal dinghy then.

http://www.portlandpudgy.com/

Well bugger me - $7,100 stateside plus delivery to UK plus import duty plus VAT - nice concept though but not at that price.

 

[cliff]

My boat (an Etap) is unsinkable, but I still have a life raft. Because I understand although unsinkable they still burn.

Ditto my Sadler. But I decided to spend the money upgrading my fire fighting equipment and still don't carry a liferaft. Each to his own.

Ditto yet again - 4 X 5kg CO2 extinguishers plus 2 foam extinguishers plus sea water pump and hose for use as fire hose - Oh yes and still no life raft - maybe if doing a transat or heading off to Iceland I would consider one for peace of mind.

 

[Elessar]

Thread drift. Ed said "try your hardest not to sink", this is me trying.

Pete

and it was a good list

 

[Woodlouse]

Can you explain then why the majority of Sadler and all Etap yachts are rated for offshore sailing without a life raft being required? Surely if the powers that be dealing with boat certification held the same opinion as you the Sadlers and Etaps would require life rafts for offshore sailing.

Try getting them coded for commercial work and see what the powers that be say on having a life raft then. If I recall correctly it was only the Sadler 34 that was deemed unsinkable and that was though an accident of design rather than an concerted effort to make it so.

Ditto yet again - 4 X 5kg CO2 extinguishers plus 2 foam extinguishers plus sea water pump and hose for use as fire hose - Oh yes and still no life raft - maybe if doing a transat or heading off to Iceland I would consider one for peace of mind.

Why so many CO2 extinguishers? I'd have thought that for the engine room one of the Halon replacement types would be most effective, and dry powder is better for electrics, though messier. I wouldn't want to tackle a GRP fire with one.

 

[prv]

Try getting them coded for commercial work and see what the powers that be say on having a life raft then.

I suspect they would insist on a raft, but that's merely a comment on the inflexibility of regulation rather than because they have inspected and tested the Etaps and made a considered judgement. So proves nothing.

I read somewhere that the French did exempt some foam-filled boats from their liferaft laws.

If I recall correctly it was only the Sadler 34 that was deemed unsinkable and that was though an accident of design rather than an concerted effort to make it so.

26, I think, not 34. They sailed one across the Channel with the seacocks open to the inside. The water level was about two feet over the cabin sole and came no higher. The bigger boats had some buoyancy, but the weight increases faster than the volume of foam as you scale up, so they made no claims of unsinkability.

Pete

 

[DJE]

26, I think, not 34.

No problem with the 34: