Do Not Buy A Besenzoni. Warning

[wakeup]

€10k and you are thinking of going legal. You need to take a chill pill and put this down to experience, you'll chew through 3 x €10k in no time. If you own the passerelle but the installation hasn't been completed, pay the installer for the kit an deduct an element for the part of the installation you are not happy with. Then go and find another installer to correct this. I bet it won't cost more than €5k to put it right. Boating is meant to be enjoyable. I could understand going legal if you had bought a £1m yacht that was a lemon but a legal wrangle over €10k isn't worth your time or emotional energy. I also think that you are potentially libelling Bes unnecessarily so I would be careful that you don't end up with an unwanted law suit.

Life is always better when you chose the positive option.

There is a story but there could be legal action so I need to keep my powder dry for now.
But please keep this in mind, many on our forum are the elite of boating. You can easily install complex systems, Hell some of you can even write the software. This is why this forum is such a useful tool for boating, especially for those without the skill set or experience. But also boating is an expensive past time and consumer advice and warnings are equally valuable.
So, this is my warning, you may think that it’s Besenzoni installing your passerelle. It is not. And whatever mess they make, Besenzoni do not care. And if you are looking to spend 10,000 on a passerelle I would look for another manufacturer, one that cares for its products and customers

 

[wakeup]

As made, repeatedly, perfectly clearly, by the Besenzoni representative, there is no connection between the factory and the installer. So, I am also separating them in this thread. This is about the manufacturer and their role (or lack of) when things go wrong. I can talk about them now, because they have made it abundantly clear, that my business with them is finished.
The discussion about the installation is ongoing

I think I would have more sympathy for the OP if he had gone to his boat manufacturer and they had recommended an installed of OEM passerelle. There is probably a heavy dose of buyer beware not followed here. Did the OP speak to the Swift factory to see if his boat needed reforcement or was already equipped to take a pass. Most boat manufacturers would be happy to help an existing customer with these basic details I am sure. Seems like a lot of muck spreading in action here, to save another 'naive' boater from themselves.

 

[Portofino]

Bouba has not said If he instructed the fitters to fit it to his place .
We are never gonna hear the other side ( fitters Vs )
So far in the absence of any detail .
May be this happened .
From experience Fr fitters send a quote , a detailed quote itemised ..Its got terms on typically 50 % up front and the balance on completion .You sign it return it they start .
At the initial survey visit Bouba told them he wanted in a position above the blue line I indicated above in a pic .
Installer would have baulked at that verbally expressed his concern other the rigidity and said he could but it may need more re enforcement but it’s hard to tell at this stage as every other one he’s done or seen are placed lower ....below that blue line .
Anyhow if needed I will tell you , can,t quote accurately for this extra work until we can access the extent of the flexing ( still unknown) and really open up the transom to see properly how to do it .
Could be a cheap bit of ply glassed in or an expensive custom fabrication of a metal of some type + remedial work to make good .

Once fitted high up according to Bouba s wishes or even before a conversation starts ( now all can see ) about additional work and the OP baulks at the new ( and correct fair price ) .....fitter in typical trades fashion issues a new quote with another 50% of the new price .
But unfortunately to do it right get it secure @ the OP s requested position this additional cost is huge .

So he does not pay the fitter the top up or argues with him and the fitter feels the client will not pay the first quote balance never mind the additional balance .

Bouba .....why don’t you just pay the guy what he’s asking ?

I cant see how Besenzoni should get involved .

I,am no legal eagle but shouldn’t the fitter be taking you to court for none payment......you did sign an original quote didn’t you .
No Fr fitter would proceed ( order the stock from the factory ) without as said 50% or a “ contract “

Without sight of the contract we don,t know what caveats the fitter put on it .

like supply and fit ( insert part ) to clients desired location .
make good
sundries
waste management fee
labour
TVA On all of it
Terms etc

Then something like “ further work may be need for reinforcing and I will quote if applicable “ or words to that effect

Or the fitters and the Op unlike me looking that blue line ,both completely oblivious to any flex risk .
Fitter does his usual stuff ....whoops ! Crikey , it’s gonna need XYZ to stiffen up this Beni ....in which case if it were me I personally would not like him to be out of pocket and just suck it up and fork out .....to get the job done and move fwds .

Buy crucially either way I cant see why the factory should be involved or what the OP is expecting from them ?
Further more why slag them off .

We desperately need a pic
We need to know who decision it was to place it In it’s current position ?
Any thing ( and expense ) happening with the swim platform ladders position?

 

[Bouba]

Bouba has not said If he instructed the fitters to fit it to his place .
We are never gonna hear the other side ( fitters Vs )
So far in the absence of any detail .
May be this happened .
From experience Fr fitters send a quote , a detailed quote itemised ..Its got terms on typically 50 % up front and the balance on completion .You sign it return it they start .
At the initial survey visit Bouba told them he wanted in a position above the blue line I indicated above in a pic .
Installer would have baulked at that verbally expressed his concern other the rigidity and said he could but it may need more re enforcement but it’s hard to tell at this stage as every other one he’s done or seen are placed lower ....below that blue line .
Anyhow if needed I will tell you , can,t quote accurately for this extra work until we can access the extent of the flexing ( still unknown) and really open up the transom to see properly how to do it .
Could be a cheap bit of ply glassed in or an expensive custom fabrication of a metal of some type + remedial work to make good .

Once fitted high up according to Bouba s wishes or even before a conversation starts ( now all can see ) about additional work and the OP baulks at the new ( and correct fair price ) .....fitter in typical trades fashion issues a new quote with another 50% of the new price .
But unfortunately to do it right get it secure @ the OP s requested position this additional cost is huge .

So he does not pay the fitter the top up or argues with him and the fitter feels the client will not pay the first quote balance never mind the additional balance .

Bouba .....why don’t you just pay the guy what he’s asking ?

I cant see how Besenzoni should get involved .

I,am no legal eagle but shouldn’t the fitter be taking you to court for none payment......you did sign an original quote didn’t you .
No Fr fitter would proceed ( order the stock from the factory ) without as said 50% or a “ contract “

Without sight of the contract we don,t know what caveats the fitter put on it .

like supply and fit ( insert part ) to clients desired location .
make good
sundries
waste management fee
labour
TVA On all of it
Terms etc

Then something like “ further work may be need for reinforcing and I will quote if applicable “ or words to that effect

Or the fitters and the Op unlike me looking that blue line ,both completely oblivious to any flex risk .
Fitter does his usual stuff ....whoops ! Crikey , it’s gonna need XYZ to stiffen up this Beni ....in which case if it were me I personally would not like him to be out of pocket and just suck it up and fork out .....to get the job done and move fwds .

Buy crucially either way I cant see why the factory should be involved or what the OP is expecting from them ?
Further more why slag them off .

We desperately need a pic
We need to know who decision it was to place it In it’s current position ?
Any thing ( and expense ) happening with the swim platform ladders position?

Porto, did you get my PM?

 

[wakeup]

Porto, did you get my PM?

OK so this is the problem Bouba. You have sh*t stirred this up with the Beszonni and you won't give the detail but you are now selectively PM'ing forum members presumably sharing some information that you believe supports your case.

Why not just put the facts on here. I don't expect it will prejudice your case if they are just the sequential facts.

 

[jrudge]

Just shows nothing is going on. 65 posts and other than Portos deductions we are none the wiser.

An Englishman in France suing a. Italian company. No wonder forum posts are way down !

Daf

 

[Portofino]

Porto, did you get my PM?

Yes just seen it and replied .
For the benefit of the rest what I wrote above is not far off the mark ....but factor in a seemingly shitty Fr fitter / arse hole + huge time delays even pre C19 .
But I have stuck by Besenzoni and hopefully a fuller explanation will come along

 

[Bouba]

OK so this is the problem Bouba. You have sh*t stirred this up with the Beszonni and you won't give the detail but you are now selectively PM'ing forum members presumably sharing some information that you believe supports your case.

Why not just put the facts on here. I don't expect it will prejudice your case if they are just the sequential facts.

The problem is that everyone wants me to combine the actions of the installer with Besenzoni. But Besenzoni made it very clear that they are completely separate. And that is what I’m trying to warn people of, not where’s the best place to put a passerelle on a Swift Trawler.

 

[Irish Rover]

I think the OP should reflect again on the appropriateness of the thread title and his opening post in the light of what has now emerged over the course of 60+ posts.
The title could have read "Beware - Besenzoni will not help if you have a problem with one of their approved distributors/installers"
Post could have set out the facts - Contracted with an approved Bes distributor/installer - manure hit the fan - appealed to Bes for assistance and they washed their hands of any involvement or responsibility and refused to intervene.
We would all have been suitably warned.

 

[Bouba]

The title could have read "Beware - Besenzoni will not help if you have a problem with one of their approved distributors/installers"

IR, I agree but why does a company not help its customers with a problem ? Because if they have to hide behind a technicality then they have no pride or passion

 

[Irish Rover]

IR, I agree but why does a company not help its customers with a problem ? Because if they have to hide behind a technicality then they have no pride or passion

I'm with you 100% on that. If they have approved/recommended distributors/installers listed on their website they should make a reasonable effort to determine the facts and mediate or stronger if it's apparent their installer is in the wrong. If they think he has followed correct procedures they should also tell you that.

 

[Portofino]

Any pics ?........of the Passerelle.

 

[Bouba]

Bientôt

 

[Portofino]

Daccord .

Theses days - Va bene ....

 

[J12345T]

Hi Bouba,

Having just been through something like this I can sympathise how frustrating it is. That said it is fixable and depending on exactly what the problem is its not as bad as you might assume. The attached pics are an indication of how I solved the problem and the lift etc is now rock solid lifting a ~180kg tender..

Let me know if you want any more info.

Cheers,

James.