Do most sailors really know how to sail?

[Resolution]

Along with many of us, I hate to see a badly-trimmed sail. And I usually like to go as fast as conditions allow. So the first thing is to keep sails in good nick, and to replace when stretched out. Secondly always set the sail accurately for the course. Thirdly adjust the trim regularly as conditions change. If you don't enjoy doing this I feel you might as well have a motorboat.
A key point is how easy it is to adjust the sails: our genoa winches are decent size and well located, so it is not difficult to tweak them. Likewise the genoa sheet cars, which are extremely easy to move and often provide the best fine tune. Reefing on the other hand is a two-man operation that falls into our ten minute rule ("If you think something major needs to be done, wait ten minutes and re-assess carefully").
All this routine goes out of the window when I am feeling seasick, when the slightest effort can be too much!

 

[Cheery]

Just to enforce petehb's point about enjoyment. I was chatting to a local skipper on Peter Island last year and asked about his preference for cats or monos. He said monos as you;

'Sit at de back and run de ropes troo your hands'

He demonstrated this with his arms at right angles sat on a bar stool. He worked for one of the local charter companies and Caribbean people are not renowned for being overly bothered with rushing around, more like:

'Yeah man, we get dere when wi get dere'

Sounds like a good philosophy.

 

[Neil]

Over and above that with well worn sails there is only so much you can do and many cruisers have well worn sails.

It was when I got new sails that I paid more attention to sail trim, on the basis that there's not much you can do with a sail like a pair of old bloomers, but not to to get the best out of your new sails would be wasting your money.

 

[reginaldon]

It breaks my heart to see cruising boats soldiering along with flappy leeches, utterly shagged out genoas badly trimmed. Please get off your arse and trim the sheets!

Live and let live! If you are broken hearted go along to the Samaritans.

 

[obmij]

Come back to this a bit late, I did not infer that there would be a total disregard to trimming but that the average cruiser would not spend every minute attending to his sail trim and in so doing would be about 10% from his cruising speed, not a well set up and optimised boat. To continually try to sail a boat at it's optimum over a cruise of say 2 to 3 weeks may in total save half a days sailing time but would totally destroy the pleasure of the cruise. As has been said a lot depends on weather you are reaching or hard on the wind as to how far away from optimum you will be if you are not totally focused on sail trim. Over and above that with well worn sails there is only so much you can do and many cruisers have well worn sails.

I reckon most cruisers could find an extra half knot without too much effort.

Half a knot doesn't sound like much but it adds up quickly! Knocks about three days off a three week passage, and potentially more if you're catching tides you would have missed / dodging weather etc..

 

[Daydream believer]

It is not just sail trim. I had my rigging re done & my mast tip raked forward 400mm. I bought a rig gauge & played about with tension & I have found that at a certain set up the boat performs better
I also change halyards & sheets as well as control lines regularly so I am not playing with hard UV affected ropes that do not run nicely through the blocks.
The mainsheet track setup has been improved with better lines & set in a way that it is easier to adjust than the original
I have changed the kicking strap to a cascade dynema setup & the same for the backstay adjuster.
I regularly service the winches & wash the blocks & have roller bearing blocks on several points. All of which makes the boat nicer to sail & I am more likely to adjust something that is easy to adjust

 

[Suttle]

Agree with that. A couple of years ago we were sailing in our annual club race with a crew who was an ex dinghy national champion, half way round the course he took over the helm and got me and my regular crew (no2 son) almost continuously trimming the sails, ease here, harden up there...the result was amazing the boat speed increased we overtook boats,unheard of for me! We had our best finish for years but were absolutely knackered at the end. It was a real eye opener for me and now we do try and get more out of the boat even if just out for a couple of hours.

 

[GHA]

I reckon most cruisers could find an extra half knot without too much effort.

Half a knot doesn't sound like much but it adds up quickly! Knocks about three days off a three week passage, and potentially more if you're catching tides you would have missed / dodging weather etc..

And spend more money because you get across an ocean quicker.... tis all a compromise...

Does trim make as much difference when the wind is always behind the beam? If it's ahead of the beam the cruiser has some passage planning to Learn, not so much sail trimming

 

[Serin]

Of course this means that I'm out on days when the weather is not quite so nice, or even down right nasty. How many "cruisers" make an excuse not to get out on the water. "Oh it's raining" they complain, or "It's too windy" or "too cold". In the end all of these are nothing more than excuses that keep you at home, in front of the TV, and not out on the water where you should be.

Well, I'm a former racer, contented cruiser and inveterate tweaker. But "where I should be" is where I choose to be. And that is very rarely in front of the TV. Sailing is glorious part of life, but it is not the whole of life.

 

[sadlerbob]

Don't worry about it, set the trim roughly and enjoy the sail.

Now me, I've competitively raced until 15 years ago which has left me a legacy of hoisting the sails then the constant flattening, adjusting halyard, outhaul downhaul, tweaking etc etc starts, which carries on constantly until I drop and furl the sails.
It's not fun for my wife who sighs every time she takes the helm or I engage the auto helm so I can trim something.
Now the return form me is keeping the boat going as fast as I can to arrive at our destination early. What do I gain from that time? Nothing! I just sit in the cockpit with a glass or the dinghy is pumped up earlier.
Enjoy the sail as I am blighted by the tweaking illness!

 

[Tranona]

I reckon most cruisers could find an extra half knot without too much effort.

Half a knot doesn't sound like much but it adds up quickly! Knocks about three days off a three week passage, and potentially more if you're catching tides you would have missed / dodging weather etc..

On many cruising boats you can get that by replacing the fixed prop with a folder or featherer - and it is there all the time with no effort. Not too many people do 3 week passages though - but it is where the drag reduction really earns its keep.

 

[haydude]

It's a compromise and obeys the law of diminishing returns. With say an average boat speed of say 5Knts if you can only improve that speed by 1 to 5 % is it worth the continued hassle let alone the expense of the gear and sails to allow you to tweek. Most sailors will get their boat sailing to within 10% of optimum I would have thought.

I agree. I put myself in the category of those who know what their are doing, however I never trim the sails for optimum performance but rather to a compromise that limits wear and tear.

My cruiser has dacron sails and if, for example, I wanted to trim my main at the foot with the outhaul or crank down the mainsheet as I should for optimum shape, in just a few months use I would end up with a very baggy sail!

Laminated racing sails do keep their shape better when abused like that however it is quite normal to replace racing sails every season. Honestly I prefer to make my sails last up to 10 years. They cost a lot more than fuel.

 

[Fox Morgan]

If you can hoist a sail and get from one place to another then yes, you can sail.
But asking if people really know how to sail/drive is like comparing rally drivers, formula 1 drivers, banger racers, sunday drivers and school run parents all in the same category.
Of course we can all sail, to differing degrees according to our desires and needs.

I'm fairly average I'd say, I really enjoy long distance racing and I love the sensation of eeking every little bit of speed out of my boat, going faster than others is always one of my favourite things to do.
But I also love cruising, but I like to feel that I've set the boat up to the best of my ability for the given day.
In the same way I drive my van, car or motorbike to the best of my ability. In the same way that I ride my bicycle to the best of my ability, sometimes the best of my ability means speed, othertimes it means grace.

speed and grace dont always come hand in hand.

If I have guests on board who aren't mad keen sailors but willing, then I aim for grace and a certain level of decorum found from conservative sailing.
If I find someone daft enough to join me in competitive sailing then things get considerably less polite, lines, sails and positioning along with routing are monitored mercilessly.

I learn more from sailing competitively than any other way and this makes cruising all the more enjoyable.

 

[Birdseye]

It's the whole "over-canvassed / under-canvassed" thing I'm still struggling with for the moment, and knowing when to reef and when to shake the reef out. Never had that question to worry about with my old Enterprise dinghy, it was (and I jest) just a case of screaming at the crew to hike out harder

Too much heel increases leeway. Your rudder acts as a brake if you have too much on. I usually work on 10 degree rudder max and if I cant achieve that by sail trim, main down track etc then I reef. Your boat might be a bit different but one thing is for sure - by the time the tiller is under your chin and you have both feet planted on the lewward gunwhale, you are going slow.

 

[Birdseye]

Don't worry about it, set the trim roughly and enjoy the sail.

Now me, I've competitively raced until 15 years ago which has left me a legacy of hoisting the sails then the constant flattening, adjusting halyard, outhaul downhaul, tweaking etc etc starts, which carries on constantly until I drop and furl the sails.
It's not fun for my wife who sighs every time she takes the helm or I engage the auto helm so I can trim something.
Now the return form me is keeping the boat going as fast as I can to arrive at our destination early. What do I gain from that time? Nothing! I just sit in the cockpit with a glass or the dinghy is pumped up earlier.
Enjoy the sail as I am blighted by the tweaking illness!

I didnt know that I had a twin!"

 

[Dockhead]

Is it fair to say that most cruising sailors don't know how to sail properly or are not bothered about doing so?

I put myself in the category above. The trouble is that unless you have been taught by someone who really knows, and I mean really knows, sail trimming is difficult, complicated and a continual process.

Most cruising sailors just want the boat to sail for A to B and then to sit back with a drink. As long as the sails are not flapping around they are happy.

The trouble with really getting a boat to sail at it's optimum speed there are so many adjustments you can make and each one effects the others.

I have no idea when it comes to really sailing the boat, I set it up as best I can and relax, tweaking a few things occasionally. But then again I am a cruising sailor.

This link is really good on sail trim and covers a few basics well. It is well worth reading and helped me.

http://www.pbo.co.uk/seamanship/troubleshooting-your-telltales-24274#6iquyvFofbSgQvZO.01

I think what you write is very true.

However, it's not just laziness or ignorance. Many cruising boats have sails which are too blown out or badly cut to be much be trimmed properly, and are not rigged with adequate sail controls. My father's boat has no vang and no traveller, for example.

My boat has good controls, but the Dacron sails delivered with the boat when new were already well blown out when I bought her eight years later. When the sails are bagged out, the controls have much less effect and sail trim doesn't do much and doesn't seem much worth the effort. I sucked it up this year and had new carbon laminate sails made, and what a difference! All of a sudden all the sail controls have a huge effect, and you have a big range of different sail shapes, which did not exist at all with the old sails.

Sail trim is an incredibly complex art, and to gain even minimal competence, one has to invest some time and effort to learn the theory, experiment, and work and work at it. I accept that not all cruising sailors are that much interested in sailing, but what a waste! Sailing is fun!

 

[dslittle]

Sail trim is an incredibly complex art, and to gain even minimal competence, one has to invest some time and effort to learn the theory, experiment, and work and work at it. I accept that not all cruising sailors are that much interested in sailing, but what a waste! Sailing is fun!

We sailed a bit over 1000 miles this summer. Some of that time we were going quite fast and at other times not so fast. When we had the wind and a tidal gate to make, I did a bit of tweaking. When we weren't trying to make a tidal gate, I did less. When there wasn't enough wind, I put the engine on. We had fun the whole time...

 

[capnsensible]

Sail trim is an incredibly complex art

Sailing is fun!

Noo, its easy! Just practice something simple a lot. :encouragement:

 

[Tony Cross]

That's me. I sail for fun, which in my case means avoiding rain, high winds and cold weather whenever possible. Sue me.

I'm with JumbleDuck and I freely confess that by the standards of this thread I don't know how to sail. I'm with Nostro too, I get the boat moving as comfortably and quickly as I can without any flapping bits on the sails and then enjoy the ride.

I have raced a couple of times. I crewed with a friend on his yacht in the 3-day Cretan Union Cup. The owner/skipper does know how to sail fast and to be brutally honest I didn't enjoy much of those three days at all. The first round the cans was exciting but from then on constantly being asked to trim this or tweak that spoiled a fun experience. Too much like hard work and not enough fun. Mind you the skipper was from that country where they tend to shout a lot, that's not much fun either.....

 

[garvellachs]

YAWN!

That's an offensive and unnecessary comment. "flaming" is among the most knowledgeable and informative posters here: it would be disappointing if he or anyone else with interesting things to say was to be discouraged by such a worthless remark. Try harder to think before you post?