DIY sailmaking: total waste of time, or a worthwhile fascinating skill?

[Greenheart]

I've no idea. I've read about Contender dinghy sailors lopping the foot off their sail in order to raise the boom when the mast is raked back. And lots of dinghies and yachts seem to be sold with unexplored lockers full of old part-worn genoas and slightly damaged spinnakers...

...so if one is reasonably acquainted with the shape a sail needs to be for the purpose it'll be put to, just how small is the margin for error between 'good enough' and 'good enough for lamp wicks'? Obviously I'm discounting kevlar/other ultra-modern materials.

I know established sailmakers do an excellent job for rather a lot of money, so my question is whether there is interest and fulfilment in home sail-making, as well as a beneficial element of at-sea-repair ability, to be gained from knowing how...or whether it's only a recipe for frustration.

In the same way many of us needn't call a professional mechanic to diagnose and sort-out basic diesel engine issues, isn't sail-repair one of those sailing competencies that oughtn't to be allowed to fade into history?

 

[prv]

I'd say there's quite a difference between hand- or machine-sewing a cut/tear, bust seam, or other damage, and actually cutting new panels and hence defining the shape of the sail. The first is something a skilled sailor should be able to do (not that I necessarily do ) and the second is a sailmaker's job albeit the sailmaker might also be a sailor.

Traditional junk sails are completely flat in cut so much easier for the non-expert.

Pete

 

[r_h]

A fascinating skill that will help you learn more than anyone might imagine about sail shape, providing you have loads and loads of spare time.

EDIT: I should have read the OP properly - the above refers to making new sails. Sail repair is certainly a worthwhile and money saving skill - especially if it means any problems are dealt with when they first appear, rather than when it's possible/convenient to get the sail to a sailmaker.

 

[Tranona]

There was a time when making your own sails was very common. Remember books on the subject. However, like many DIY things from the past no longer common, partly because sails (like boats) have become bigger and the "technology" more complex. If you look carefully you will find that professionally made sails are not expensive when you see the cost of raw materials compared with the finished cost. It is a very competitive business which drives costs down and the value is in the knowhow that produces a good product.

Repairs on the other hand can be good DIY projects if you have the basic skills and machinery to do the work.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

..... isn't sail-repair one of those sailing competencies that oughtn't to be allowed to fade into history?

It's a convenience thing isn't it? If one sails for leisure, predominantly at weekends and has a busy working week then repairs, no matter how simple, are likely to be carried out by a professional.

On the other hand, the same leisure sailor who decides to sail further for longer should at least have the tools to repair a tear and access to instructions. In the past I have repaired a blown spinnaker, patched a genoa and repaired a panel seam on a main sail: herring bone and cross stitch are the two stitches most likely to be used. Sail repair tape by itself I have found to be pretty useless as the sails are always too damp for the tape to stick.

So, yes, sail repair capability should be at least possible for most people to master in a short time with basic instructions. I used the instructions in The Macmillan and Silk Cut Yachtsman's Handbook; not exactly rocket science.

I started a Wharram Catamaran build and he supplied instructions for making your own sails. I remember thinking at the time that it I would have got a better sail wrt performance from a sailmaker, it looked like tedious work to me.

 

[lw395]

The problem with actually making new sails, IMHO, is that the materials are quite expensive, and a lot of skill is needed to get a result better than a secondhand sail for less money.
I do know people who have successfully made their own spinnakers from scratch though.

I've made a few covers and done a few repairs, but in general I have found my local sailmakers good value for repairs.

There are people out there making their own.
There used to be people using a builders' plastic called Tyvek IIRC

 

[prv]

On the other hand, the same leisure sailor who decides to sail further for longer should at least have the tools to repair a tear and access to instructions. In the past I have repaired a blown spinnaker, patched a genoa and repaired a panel seam on a main sail: herring bone and cross stitch are the two stitches most likely to be used.

Racing on the Army boats in Kiel, we once had a disastrous spinnaker drop in which one of the crew was bowled over on the side-deck, dislocating his shoulder (which fortunately popped back in on its own shortly after) and a big gash was torn in the spinnaker. The injured crew was installed out of the way in the forward corner of the cockpit, and the sail bundled down below in disgust. We had quite a long upwind leg to do, but assumed that since we wouldn't be able to hoist the spinnaker on the subsequent broad reach, we would end up trailing by miles.

After half an hour or so, our injured crew asked someone to fetch him the sail-repair kit and pass up the ripped part of the spinnaker through the hatch. The skipper told him it was useless with such a big tear, impossible to get the stitches even enough to take the load equally, so one would be overloaded and pull out, followed by the next and the next and the next and the whole thing unzips. But he insisted, and sat there for a couple of hours carefully stitching away with his one good arm and the hand of the hurt one resting in his lap.

He finished just in time for us to pack the chute and have it ready for the next mark. We carefully hoisted it, and to general amazement it stayed in one piece until the end of that leg. That was the last downwind leg of the passage, and we didn't do badly in the final result.

Pete

 

[maxi77]

I think the big problem for most people is having a big clean flat space to lay out a sail on. I used to have enough trouble finding a flat space to lay out the numbers for a laser sail. I have repaired a few sails, mainly when there has been a stitching failure but tend to leave anything else to the local sailmaker.

There used to quite a few books on designing sails so if you want to do a bit of research the material is out there

 

[jwilson]

I've no idea. I've read about Contender dinghy sailors lopping the foot off their sail in order to raise the boom when the mast is raked back. And lots of dinghies and yachts seem to be sold with unexplored lockers full of old part-worn genoas and slightly damaged spinnakers...

...so if one is reasonably acquainted with the shape a sail needs to be for the purpose it'll be put to, just how small is the margin for error between 'good enough' and 'good enough for lamp wicks'? Obviously I'm discounting kevlar/other ultra-modern materials.

I know established sailmakers do an excellent job for rather a lot of money, so my question is whether there is interest and fulfilment in home sail-making, as well as a beneficial element of at-sea-repair ability, to be gained from knowing how...or whether it's only a recipe for frustration.

In the same way many of us needn't call a professional mechanic to diagnose and sort-out basic diesel engine issues, isn't sail-repair one of those sailing competencies that oughtn't to be allowed to fade into history?

Have done it, but was taught quite a bit by a working sailmaker. For smaller boats most can be done by a good zig-zag domestic machine plus hand worked eyes etc, but the boring bit is running up the broad seams between panels - if at all possible I used to get those run through fast on a double-needle machine at the sail loft. If I had to and I had the time I could fairly confidently make a fairly good quality suit of sails for up to about a 20-22-footer, without anything more than a domestic machine, though the biggest problem would be finding laying out for cutting space - ideally a large wood floor you don't mind a few tiny holes in.

 

[fishermantwo]

I repair sails and have built a large spinnaker from scratch. I have a large sail room with an industrial zig zag Singer set up on a long table set up that can handle large sails. The problem is getting material at the right price and the extras needed. Some companies will only supply sailmakers. You can buy ready cut kits from companies like Sailrite but they are probably no cheaper than buying a new high tech sail from China. I have to buy my thread from the USA off EBay. I've bought Dacron from Britain for model yachts.
Best bet is secondhand sails off EBay and modify.

 

[DownWest]

It is not rocket science. I made the sails for my 15ft Oughtred boat. Gunter rig. Bought a decent book (Sailmakers Apprentice) and the cloth off Point North. I have a spare loft that is 7x7mtrs and that is important. The result sets very well and has encouraged friends to do likewise, with my book and machine...... Cost: About 1/3 of the quote from a well known maker in UK. I notice the bay has cheaper cloth now.
It was quite a satisfying experience especially for a first timer, so no fears for the next, bigger, set when needed.
DW

 

[Blueboatman]

Interesting thread ( thread eh, ?)

I wonder if culturally and economically the nation is being nudged to (back)toward a fix-it , make n mend society after the halcyon part-exchange it days of economic boom?

In some eyes that would make us third world style sailors tho.

Time to start reading PBO

 

[Grumpybear]

Interesting thread ( thread eh, ?)

I wonder if culturally and economically the nation is being nudged to (back)toward a fix-it , make n mend society after the halcyon part-exchange it days of economic boom?

In some eyes that would make us third world style sailors tho.

Time to start reading PBO

You may have a point. How far up the economic social scale will that kind of society extend, I wonder?

Digressing in the direction of the drowned electric outboard thread, I can't see the make do and mend philosophy encompassing anything with a microprocessor and hence software in it e.g. cars, navigational or any other kind of electronics etc. For many individuals and groups, this may turn out to be our Achilles heel in the end.

 

[lw395]

You may have a point. How far up the economic social scale will that kind of society extend, I wonder?

Digressing in the direction of the drowned electric outboard thread, I can't see the make do and mend philosophy encompassing anything with a microprocessor and hence software in it e.g. cars, navigational or any other kind of electronics etc. For many individuals and groups, this may turn out to be our Achilles heel in the end.

I know a couple of people who have built their own ecu's for cars.
Simpl microprocessors are ideal for hobbyists, it's just a different skill set from woodwork and sewing.

 

[Greenheart]

I've always found the idea of a Land Rover Defender with old, ultra-basic carburettor petrol engine, very appealing. Something attractive about the 2CV idea of mechanicals that are so basic, any farmer with a wrench and a hammer can fashion parts and basic repairs...

...likewise, junk rig seems a thoroughly practical low-tech answer to DIY sailing. Isn't the only downside of the junk rig, the immense weight of the sail and battens? But I don't suppose it's remotely as efficient as a good modern sloop rig.

 

[Rossynant]

Junk can "be as efficient as a good modern sloop rig" but then would need to be made in same standard, which is negating the idea. Junk sail for the same hull may have more area - this will give as much drive with less "efficiency" meant as drive/area. For heavy hull that can carry more sail junk may be better as there will be more sail area set than in bermudian.
But then modern sloop is for windward in light winds, while junk the oposite.

And I got to get me a Defender

 

[NornaBiron]

We made a new 45 square metre mainsail this winter. An established sailmaker designed and cut it and then we put it together with our LSZ-1 machine. We borrowed a closed taverna for the space and spent approx 3 weeks putting it all together. The biggest problem was in ordering. The company we used didn't supply everything as asked for, the sail fabric was poorly marked and the plan was practically non-existant, it was like putting a jigsaw together without the picture! Th e sail is now on and has been tested in a short day sail. We're happy with the shape and performance. We saved approx 65% of the cost of having one made professionally.

Next winter we'll tackle the headsails, using a different supplier!

 

[prv]

I can't see the make do and mend philosophy encompassing anything with a microprocessor and hence software in it

You've not noticed all of Angus's YAPP threads, then? Plus there's all the trendy people banging on about "Maker culture", which is just a poncy name for what I consider normal behaviour in repairing and building things - a lot of them are into electronics and microprocessors.

Pete

 

[phanakapan]

It's definitely worthwhile- nay essential IMHO- to learn how to mend/alter/repair sails. I've repaired my genoa a couple of times- I use sticky tape to pull the tear together on both sides, then stitch through that. It is a problem getting enough flat area to lay the sail out, but repairs can be done at sea if you're desperate!

My Sailrite sewing machine has now helped me repair 3 sails; made my own stack pack and sail covers; made sailbags; a bimini; 2 lee cloths; cushion covers from 'Molas' from the San Blas Islands; and I've just spent the last couple of weeks re-covering all my bunk cushions, and making fitted sheets and mattress covers for all the bunks. I also mended someone elses sail in Fiji- and got 'paid' in bottles of rum and cava. Result!

 

[DownWest]

Interesting thread ( thread eh, ?)

I wonder if culturally and economically the nation is being nudged to (back)toward a fix-it , make n mend society after the halcyon part-exchange it days of economic boom?

In some eyes that would make us third world style sailors tho.

Time to start reading PBO

Hum.. Having lived in a 2nd world (european) country, I got quite used to making my own kit. Not just boats, but in the workshop. Part of a job I took on involved using aluminium sections. The price of the kit made me sit down and would have only been justified if I had a continuous run of such jobs. So, back to the workshop and by the end of the day I had the basic cutting rig. Just as accurate as the commercial cutters, but made entirely from stuff lying around the w/shop. Things DO come in useful....
So, several sheet metal folders, benders and tube rollers occupy spaces. Just finished a 6ton power punch and currently making a 100 cfm compressor for sand blasting. Need tp get it done as I have accepted two restoration jobs (ancient wrought iron gates) that otherwise I would have to farm out at great hassle and expense.
DW

As for cars, my Espace doesn't have an ECU and is a darn sight more comfy that a LR. Mrs DW's Twingo has (a simple) one. Plus a spare in the boot :<))