DIY refilling Camping Gaz 907 bottles.

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anniebray

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Has anybody worked out a satisfactory method for refilling the Gaz 907 bottles from say a Calor Gas Butane bottle ? If so I would appreciate a PM with the details.
Nigel Calder in his excellent Boat Owners Manual describes how this can be done for cylinders with threaded connections. However for this particular task one would have to devise an adaptor to suit the Calor "clip on" & another to fit the 907 M16 threaded connection.
I do appreciate that such a task must be done with great care. Firstly the 907 cylinder is designed for storing Butane only which has a lower pressure than Propane or LPG. Also a cylinder must not be filled to greater than 80 percent of its volume to allow for expansion. Finally of course such a procedure should be carried out in a well ventilated area to eliminate risk of explosion.
The motivation to do this is of course the rip off price of Gaz.
Calor Gas £29.99/15KG = £1.99/KG
Camping Gaz in CP250 cartridge. £16.99 for 12x250gm cartridge from Argos = £5.66/KG
Camping Gaz in 907 bottle £19.49/2.72kg= £7.17/KG
All of the above gases are Butane.
Thanks in advance for all comments.
 
Bernard Moitessier had an interesting way of doing it in one of his books. He hung the big calor bottle with chain from a reasonable height. Then put the smaller camping gaz bottle on a scales below it. Connected the two with hose and the correct fittings. It worked on the principle of gravity and the fact that so long as the gas is compressed and in liquid form it just flows from one bottle to the other. When the scales stops rising then you know it's full.
 
I think that there might be some legal liability issues but aside from that...

Both butane and propane are LPG = Liquefied Petroleum Gas (not to be confused with LNG = Liquefied Natural Gas and is not retailed in liquid form).

The safest and easiest way forward is for you to make provision for the larger butane or propane cylinder; maybe on deck.
 
Go for the screw fitting Calor butane cylinder.
Get a high pressure hose with fittings for the Calor cylinder on both ends, part number 16440 from www.BES.co.uk I think and a Camping gas to Calor adaptor part number 8888 from the same source. (pages 58 and 63 of the on line catalogue)

Go for it, but not near me!

Weigh the refilled Gaz cylinder and vent off any excess,

Purge the air out of the conneting hose before you refill.
 
125 views in less than 1 hour suggests that this subject has met with considerable interest or maybe its been a really boring wet day ! Well why should we lie down & allow this gross rip off ??
Our new boat was solely designed for a 907 cylinder, not even storage for a spare so that has to be put in the anchor locker. We sometimes like to use the Camping Bistro stove in the cockpit & find that we can store 2x cartridges for this in the gas locker. A Calor cylinder or other stored outside the gas locker could be unsightly & what about our 2/3 month cruises outside UK ? In France we shall use the free/cheap electricity when possible. We have kettle, toaster, microwave & perhaps we will get a single hot plate or electric griddle plate.
Thanks for the replies already received... I think I now know how I can practically do the job. But of course now that Ive been made aware that what I proposed may not be legal, I wouldn't dream of DIY refilling would I ??
On a serious note though, if anyone follows the DIY refilling route, please take very great care.
 
Provided it is done in the open LPG isn't as scary as you might think. I spent some time surveying a refinery/tank farm/LPG facility outside Cairo some years ago for fire and gas safety systems. The filling process involved quite large quantities being vented. The key issue was not to have any sumps, drains or bunds that could possibly collect the gas. It looked scary but they'd not had a single fire or explosion in over a decade of filling even with heavy cylinders being moved on conveyors - presumably with the occasional sparks.

As for going electric, we've found that quite a few French marinas have very limited mains. Deauville only gave us around 5A, for example, ISTR. I have fitted an ammeter visible in the galley (mine is a moving iron 0-25A from RS Components as we have a 6kVA generator). This allows the cook to see what they are drawing and saves having to keep resetting the trip! Indispensable for a cruising yacht intending to use electricity for cooking.

Newer systems are mostly 16A but in Cannes we found that the metered supply was protected by fast-acting trips which is exactly what you don't want. A 'normal' 16A trip will happily give 20A to 25A for long enough for you to realise your mistake and turn something off.
 
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Thanks Anniebray for the useful tip of storing a spare bottle in the anchor locker. I have had a spare 4.5kg bottle lashed to a stantion for the best part of the summer as I couldn't think of anywhere to put it that had a drain. Although the drain in the anchor locker is a bit small - wouldn't meet calor gas regs.
 
There were a couple of threads on this subject last year but as we have a crap search facility now there is SFA chance of finding them.

In answer to your question it is quite feasible - all you need is a filling line made up with the correct pigtails/adaptors and a vent valve.
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Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity
 
I tremble at the thought of all of this- especially as one of our bank messengers many, many years ago messed about with one of those tiny screw on gas bottles for backpacking stoves and got it wrong. It blew up in his face and left him terribly scarred and unable to expose his upper body and face to UV for ever thereafter.

Nevertheless I empathise with those who feel hard done by with Gaz and the prospect of a cheaper refill intrigues me. So a couple of questions occur to me- can you advise please?

I have a couple of Calor bottles for the Barbie but with clip on regulator valves.

1. Should I not consider putting a tail on the regulator with an adaptor for the 907 or would this be dangerous or would the regulator work against my intentions?

2. Since proper rubber hose is designed to deal with the pressures of released LPG, can I not use this as the connector between the two bottles valve fittings?

At the moment this is simply an academic question as the amount of butane I use is minimal anyway but knowledge is power and I have a very empty 907 looking at me and a very full 15kg Calor bottle doing the same. The end of the season looms near and it may be something to explore further later on
 
Am I missing something? Aren't the bottles filled under pressure? If so you will presumably only ever get a part filled bottle.

I admire your cunning and bravery, but hope you don't do it anywhere near me or my boat. Have you really thought through the potential consequences of it going wrong?

We've actually only recently converted our boat from Calor to Camping Gaz. While the additional price of Gaz is galling, it's one we're prepared to pay for the benefit of being able to carry a spare cylinder (fits in gas locker) which we couldn't do with Calor, and ready availability, especially abroad.
 
Re Gin

You cannot include the regulator. It must be bottle to bottle.

The rubber hose must be high pressure hose and IMHO if this is to be done safely it should be a proper made up job not done with jubilee clips.

Camping gas is butane so do not be tempted to fill with anything other than pure butane or the pressure will be too great for the bottle.


To Carvel

Look at the Utube video in Sarabande's post. The receptor vessels are cooled to create a pressure differential and the donor cylinder is turned upside down so that liquid is passed from one to t'other


Anyone trying this without being fully aware of the pitfalls is nuts but it is much the same procedure as i have used in the distant past to produce gas mixtures as secondary standards for gas chromatography. And that was using ordinary compressed gasses at much higher pressures (about 2500psi)
 
Cliff,
You kindly outlined the method for doing this for me at this time last year. I didn't go for it at the time, other pressures if you'll pardon the pun, but I think I have found a supplier of the necessary 'bits' so I will be trying again over winter. I may need to clarify one or two points with you then, if that's ok?
 
I knew I had scripted a detailed account of how to do it - just could not remember for whom. PM me by all means if you have any further questions.
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Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity
 
I used to frequently decant oxygen bottles this way (200bar) I used a high pressure connection for a grease gun (new! used would have blown up) At the low pressures of butane a well joined set of connecters with reinforced flex tube (or copper) and the inverted supply bottle will be fine. Outside with a breeze and no lights or sparks quite safe. I once was brazing in a small room and the bottle was leaking, first I noticed was blue flame as a sort of carpet. Turned off the tap, no prob. If it had been an explosive mix I would have smelt it, on the cool day it just sat on the floor.
Andrew
Last week at Carrefour Gaz 907 €21.50 13kg Butane €26 Hum!!
 
To conclude, the necessary adaptors, valves, & high pressure connecting pipe assembly can all be purchased from BES for £22.03 including delivery & vat. You could then be doing your own refilling for £5.40 instead of £19.49. However if you don't consider yourself technically competent or know that you're accident prone, either don't do it, or get a capable mate to help. I am merely passing on what I have learned from this exercise but will accept no responsibility for your actions !
 
Many years ago, someone I know had an LPG transit, when there were two places to fill up in my area - Slough and Banbury!

He got a gas pump from an LPG conversion bits supplier and made up the appropriate connections to pump from the big propane bottles into the tank. Hard work pumping, but saved a fortune.
 
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