Dive boat fire - 30 trapped

[prv]

Surely though, if you are down below trying to escape, you won’t be able to get to the knife or the lashings as you would have to open the hatch to do so.

I was assuming the knife would be mounted in the cabin (where would you put it in the middle of a typical foredeck?), but it's a fair point about the hatch. I was thinking of my own dinghy arrangement, which is upside down over the hatch, which opens 18" or so into the body of the dinghy. You couldn't get out directly with the dinghy lashed down, but you could easily reach around the hatch lid to slash through the PVC bottom of the dinghy and then the hatch would open all the way. But of course not everybody's stowage is the same as mine, so I accept it's not a generally applicable solution.

Pete

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

See #7. Doesn't look very sunk to me.

"Divers will attempt to stabilise the 75ft-long (23m) vessel, the Conception, to recover the remaining victims.The vessel is upside down in more than 60ft of water, officials said."

from https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49571213

 

[Robert Wilson]

I was assuming the knife would be mounted in the cabin (where would you put it in the middle of a typical foredeck?), but it's a fair point about the hatch. I was thinking of my own dinghy arrangement, which is upside down over the hatch, which opens 18" or so into the body of the dinghy. You couldn't get out directly with the dinghy lashed down, but you could easily reach around the hatch lid to slash through the PVC bottom of the dinghy and then the hatch would open all the way. But of course not everybody's stowage is the same as mine, so I accept it's not a generally applicable solution.

Pete

Yes, its a distinct possibility for some arrangements. I'll have to investigate mine to see if the knife/hatch idea is ok.

I'd like an rapid self-inflating dinghy as with mine on the foredeck its v. difficult to get safely to the anchor, furling drum etc.in a hurry.
I assume there isn't such a thing (without a large enough on-board supply of compressed air cylinders)?

 

[scotty123]

I hesitate to divert the thread off into practical discussions of dinghy handling, but assuming a normal yacht inflatable it seems to me that a knife stowed nearby - to cut either the lashings or the dinghy itself - would be sufficient to allow escape if needed.

A good point, though.

Pete

Got to be able to open the hatch first, to access any lashings from below.
If dinghy is lashed down securely, it would be impossible.

 

[RichardS]

Got to be able to open the hatch first, to access any lashings from below.
If dinghy is lashed down securely, it would be impossible.

See #21.

Richard

 

[JumbleDuck]

See #7. Doesn't look very sunk to me.

See #18. It appears that it floated for a while after the fire was extinguished then (in some order) capsized and sank.

 

[dom]

This USCG link includes a chilling vid depicting the intensity of the fire which burnt the vessel down to the waterline before it sank.

https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/USDHSCG/bulletins/25cc3ad

The inquiry will make sober reading.

 

[lw395]

Got to be able to open the hatch first, to access any lashings from below.
If dinghy is lashed down securely, it would be impossible.

I've rummaged out a snapshackle which will be used to secure the dinghy transom to the babystay fitting.
Should be releasable from below, by opening the hatch a few inches.

I once had the dinghy on the foredeck and couldn't easily get out from below to talk to someone, as I had the companionway apart to get at the engine.

 

[capnsensible]

Got to be able to open the hatch first, to access any lashings from below.
If dinghy is lashed down securely, it would be impossible.

Yeah, agree. Too early to say for sure but seems it could well be the fumes that got people very quickly. Surprising how few people take that into account in tragic fires. If you have to mess about even briefly to cut your way through a dinghy, it may well be too late.

 

[prv]

I'd like an rapid self-inflating dinghy as with mine on the foredeck its v. difficult to get safely to the anchor, furling drum etc.in a hurry.
I assume there isn't such a thing (without a large enough on-board supply of compressed air cylinders)?

I think you'd need to be looking at high-volume electric pumps. There are plenty of moderately-priced ones which are effective enough to be useful, but for truly "rapid" inflation I think you'd be needing something quite high-end. The Scoprega Turbo-Max does 1000 litres per minute at dinghy pressures (be aware that a lot of pumps now are aimed at paddleboards, which have a different pressure/volume tradeoff), albeit it sucks current like an anchor windlass while doing it

Pete

 

[dom]

JD's cabin pic in post #5 certainly raises a fire concern.

Flame retardants used to impregnate soft furnishings are designed to alter the chemistry of the burning process and slow it to a level which passes the relevant regulatory fire test.

Trouble is that in an established blazing fire (perhaps fuel based?), some of these chemicals can increase the toxicity of smoke and in the case of the tragic Grenfall Fire, increased the concentration of carbon monoxide and hydrogen cyanide.

Accident investigators in Santa Cruz will no doubt focus on the concentration of so much soft foam and fabric within the enclosed below deck spaces, which may in turn have caused backdrafts, poisoning, and other horrors.

We'll have to wait and see.

 

[Sgeir]

Shocking.
I can't understand how this could have happened.
Need to wait for some facts to come out.

Makes me think twice about carrying the dinghy on the foredeck, where it blocks the hatch.

We recently decided to remove the canvas forehatch cover while at sea. The hatch cannot be opened otherwise.

 

[Whitelighter]

JD's cabin pic in post #5 certainly raises a fire concern.

Flame retardants used to impregnate soft furnishings are designed to alter the chemistry of the burning process and slow it to a level which passes the relevant regulatory fire test.

Trouble is that in an established blazing fire (perhaps fuel based?), some of these chemicals can increase the toxicity of smoke more toxic and in the case of the tragic Grenfall Fire, increased the concentration of carbon monoxide and hydrogen cyanide..

I'm not sure any fire retardant soft furnishing would do well housed in a a fire burning in something made of petro-chemicals.

Have you ever seen GRP burn? Its nigh on unstoppable.

 

[JumbleDuck]

JD's cabin pic in post #5 certainly raises a fire concern.

I was thinking of booking a cruise for my other half (who does not sail) and myself on the VIC32 puffer ... until I went round her last year and saw the sleeping accommodation. Tiny cabins buried at the bottom of the boat - quite apart from the cramped squalor (for £1000/week!) I have never seen such a death trap. The Conception's accommodation was spacious in comparison, but even so I can't imagine 30+ people all trying to get out at the same time through thick smoke at night. Or rather, I can imagine it, all too easily. Shudder.

 

[RivalRedwing]

There is a plan of Conception here:

https://www.ocregister.com/2019/09/...hat-left-34-presumed-dead-in-channel-islands/

the only thing approximating to an escape hatch is at the bow, nothing (apparently) near the sleeping quarters, am lost as to how this passed regulatory muster..

 

[bedouin]

There is a plan of Conception here:

https://www.ocregister.com/2019/09/...hat-left-34-presumed-dead-in-channel-islands/

the only thing approximating to an escape hatch is at the bow, nothing (apparently) near the sleeping quarters, am lost as to how this passed regulatory muster..

So to get from the sleeping quarters to the escape hatch you have to pass by the foot of the stairs - a fire in the stairwell cuts you off from both.

 

[JumbleDuck]

So to get from the sleeping quarters to the escape hatch you have to pass by the foot of the stairs - a fire in the stairwell cuts you off from both.

If that diagram is correct (and it is in accordance with the berth layout plan), the escape hatch only serves the shower room, with no way from berths to showers and heads save by going up to the galley and back down again. Surely that can't be right? Escape routes aside, wouldn't people want a level route to the toilets?

 

[scotty123]

See #21.

Richard

I have & still don't believe you could do it in any emergency.

 

[scotty123]

I was thinking of booking a cruise for my other half (who does not sail) and myself on the VIC32 puffer ... until I went round her last year and saw the sleeping accommodation. Tiny cabins buried at the bottom of the boat - quite apart from the cramped squalor (for £1000/week!) I have never seen such a death trap. The Conception's accommodation was spacious in comparison, but even so I can't imagine 30+ people all trying to get out at the same time through thick smoke at night. Or rather, I can imagine it, all too easily. Shudder.

You'd not be happy with a traditional scottish fishing boat then, hatch aft of wheelhouse, long drop into crews bunkroom just aft of engine room, bunks all snug slots along the hull. Try getting out of that in a hurry.

 

[thinwater]

I'm curious as to how a fire developed, assuming that crew was on watch. Someone should have been awake... or did they all snooze?