Distress flare disposal. Expired pyrotechnics

That point was made in my Sailing Today column about four years ago.
I wrote to most chandlery shops and most agreed to accept flares when they sold new ones and accept flares that they sold new.
They just don't like publicising this.
Tyre disposal is an example of polluter pays law.
There are laws already but no one willing to enforce them as it is a civil matter and Trading Standards are not bothered.
Public power is the only way to win this. If everyone insists that the shop takes in old flares before buying new ones there would not be a problem. I would be happy to pay a few pounds each flare for disposal fee but not all shops are consistent.
That's why I won't buy any more of them. Technology has moved on.
 
Nick Vass said:
Well done Daydream. Well send them all to you

Retreat Boatyard have researched this extensively and built a test incinerator. Fire Service would not give consent as too close to M5 motorway.
The Fire Service control this kind of thing.
I doubt that you could make it work charging £1.25 per flare. How would people bring them to you? I can't see people driving more than say 20 miles to drop them off.
I come back to my point, and I don't want to go on about this any more.
The manufacturer should be the one who takes on the responsibility of disposing of what they made. Yes, they should charge a little but it is their responsibility.
Until they do, I won't be buying any more of them.
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This has become an end game as more and more people stop using flares and move on to alternative technology. There is no future in the leisure market for flares and if I was a manufacturer I would be planning my exit from the market.

The flare manufacturers have engineered their own demise by being pushed into a corner by regulations and not developing a creative solution to what is a marketing problem. Their actions have made the barrier to entry for other technologies even lower.

They have effectively conspired with the 'elfin safety fairies to drive us running in the arms of Odeo and their ilk.
 
Nick Vass said:
That point was made in my Sailing Today column about four years ago.
I wrote to most chandlery shops and most agreed to accept flares when they sold new ones and accept flares that they sold new.
They just don't like publicising this.
Tyre disposal is an example of polluter pays law.
Click to expand...

Said it before, and I will repeat here. It is not a case of not liking to publish it - It is often a physical impossibility - I currently see no legislation compelling a takeback scheme on expired explosives.

A chandlery is a commercial operation - they are not permitted to dispose via the MCA - they have to "make their own arrangements" in the words of the MCA.
This means if they take back your flares, they have to arrange secure storage, then transport via an ADR Explosives rated courier to a commercial disposal business who charge anything from £2.50 up to £15 PER FLARE! Some insist on using their transport (£100 per consignment) and their own secure flare boxes (£25 per box iirc).
Ok, so to minimise the cost for the transport (often £15 per consignment) - they have to stockpile TEP's - A chandlery has to be licensed to hold explosives and their licence gives them a weight limit. Every TEP waiting to be disposed of counts as part of that licence.

So, each TEP reduces the amount of flares available for sale - This essentially means that the cost of disposal is far, far higher than a couple of quid - Yes, the chandlery could add disposal costs into the flares on a return for new basis - but then someone who refuses to dispose and doesn't charge then undercuts everyone else - and as you well know, consumers want the lowest price.

It's not as simple as transferring the responsibility onto who sold it to you, do that, and they'll stop being sold, period.

And tyre sellers can afford to pay for the pollution disposal - they sell the tyres on for recycling - a TEP CANNOT be re-sold in any fashion - so that's that point mooted. it's apples and pears.

Could you link me to this "pollution pays law" legislation? I'd like to read it.

If it's anyone's "fault" it's that old chestnut of Government Cutbacks - The MOD used to dispose of marine flares, no questions asked, the MCA requires many vessels to carry them, as a result, a Government department took the responsibility for disposing of them. As cuts have hit, the service has been withdrawn, but not the legisations.
 
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Seajet said:
There was the true story of a bin lorry going through our village, some berk had thrown old flares in his bin and they got munched so somehow ignited; result, bin wagon with a trail of fire & smoke the Red Arrows would have been proud of ! :)
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I believe that was in Lymington, and the dustcart may have caught fire?
 
Apart from the problems of disposal, anyone who cruises abroad still has to carry flares. To enter France without or with out of date flares is a criminal act, not sure about other countries but would check before making the trip! The other options do not have the same generally understood meaning. Electronic transmitting devices may fail and might be possible to transfer to the liferaft. Laser flares are not as easily seen as a pyrotechnic - obvious really when you consider that the laser is a purely linear device and doesn't have anything like the energy dissipation of a burning flare. Even if I had every modern technological safety aid, I'd still want to carry flares.

Rob.
 
rob2 said:
Apart from the problems of disposal, anyone who cruises abroad still has to carry flares. To enter France without or with out of date flares is a criminal act, not sure about other countries but would check before making the trip! The other options do not have the same generally understood meaning. Electronic transmitting devices may fail and might be possible to transfer to the liferaft. Laser flares are not as easily seen as a pyrotechnic - obvious really when you consider that the laser is a purely linear device and doesn't have anything like the energy dissipation of a burning flare. Even if I had every modern technological safety aid, I'd still want to carry flares.

Rob.
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+1. In addition, SOLAS has yet to be updated to include laser beacons. So what? Well, if a member of a bridge crew sees and recognises a flare, the he know what it is, what it means and can take action. Because SOLAS does not yet recognise laser beacons, there is no training in place to ensure that a crew member seeing one would know what it was and what it meant and would not therefore initiate any rescue action.
If I can afford it, I will be adding an Odeo flare to the grab bag, as it is a useful addition to the 'here I am' armoury, along with EPRIBs and PLBs. It will not, however, replace flares which I will still be carrying because they are readily understood no matter where you are. And I have to carry them anyway, as Greece insists on at least three handheld reds.....
 
rob2 said:
Laser flares are not as easily seen as a pyrotechnic - obvious really when you consider that the laser is a purely linear device and doesn't have anything like the energy dissipation of a burning flare.

Rob.
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Rob, you might want to take a look at the video of the ODEO in use - It's not actually a Linear device - It has a holed head, rather like a glitter ball, and the laser is refracted around inside from a number of laser emitting portals - The resulting signal definitely isn't linear and, while nothing like the intensity of a flare's glow, definitely indicates a flashy-distress signal.
 
FishyInverness said:
Rob, you might want to take a look at the video of the ODEO in use - It's not actually a Linear device - It has a holed head, rather like a glitter ball, and the laser is refracted around inside from a number of laser emitting portals - The resulting signal definitely isn't linear and, while nothing like the intensity of a flare's glow, definitely indicates a flashy-distress signal.
Click to expand...

I agree it's not a linear laser beam (and the new version doesn't use a laser at all, it's LED, but the name "laser flare" seems to have stuck). But I'm not convinced that it "definitely indicates a flashy-distress signal". Certainly it'll do the job if you're trying to indicate your exact position to a helicopter or lifeboat that's reached the vicinity of your radioed lat and long and is trying to spot you. But as an initial signal of distress, I'm not sure it would be recognised. "Strange flickery bright light" will draw attention, but might be mistaken for some new type of navigation mark, a high-vis beacon on some specialised type of workboat, emergency service lights, even a rave on the beach as we once spent a while trying to figure out through binos.

Pete
 
Changing tack slightly...

Although I haven't seen it, I believe there's a flare-disposal point in the marina at Cherbourg. The French being more relaxed about these things, I understand it's just an unattended metal bin to pop them in as and when. Far more convenient than the handful of UK options.

This summer my sights are set on the West Country rather than the Continent, so I don't plan to be in Cherbourg until the Scuttlebutt meetup in September. However, I have in mind an early season long weekend dash to St Vaast and back.

Don't suppose there's a similar facility there, is there?

(Earnest advice about French laws, whether accurate or inaccurate, not required thanks)

Pete
 
lw395 said:
But it's true they frown on out of date flares?
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I think (think) they do indeed get hot about out of date flares, yes. Mind you, in the couple of times I have come across officials, they just want the boat docs,especially SSR, where have you been, any tax goods (if you ve come from CIs).
 
prv said:
Although I haven't seen it, I believe there's a flare-disposal point in the marina at Cherbourg. The French being more relaxed about these things, I understand it's just an unattended metal bin to pop them in as and when. Far more convenient than the handful of UK options.
Click to expand...

I've seen one in a marina in Brittany last year, I can't remember where.
 
If you are in Falmouth, Pendennis, there is an MCA office next to the toilet block. If you catch them on the day they are off to the disposal site, you might get lucky.
 
gjgm said:
I think (think) they do indeed get hot about out of date flares, yes. Mind you, in the couple of times I have come across officials, they just want the boat docs,especially SSR, where have you been, any tax goods (if you ve come from CIs).
Click to expand...

I have had french customs ask to see my flares. They looked at the date of the first one of several i held out & they were happy
 
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