Dave_Snelson
Well-Known Member
Indeed - I often wonder why I write such things - because I know they will never happen.
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Hang on a minute. The vast majority of vehicle speeding fines are £60 fixed penalties and take no account of ability to pay and neither do most other offences. In these 2 boat speeding cases, ability to pay and mouthing off in court seem to have played no part as both fines are at a similar level and, as I have said, disproportionately higher than vehicle offences which are arguably more dangerous
Talbot
Well-Known Member
/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Andrew38
Well-Known Member
Hence why it makes sense to pay a fixed penalty if you can. It's there for simple ease of admin. If you end up in court all the new factors come into play
landaftaf
Well-Known Member
dont get too hot under the collar - do you think the bench are yotties, stinkies and/or parents with kiddies vunerable to injury from daft inconsiderate twots on a lethal weapon
oldgit
Well-Known Member
Not familar with Chichester harbour but if the area is anything like round here then the problem is not with a bit of wash causing boats underway to bounce about a bit but with all the stuff going on around the edges,people mooring up,having a brew,getting in and out of dinghies and mebbe boats moored to pontoons etc.Your man got away lightly it would seem compared to the fines imposed on a enthusiastic boat owner round here a few years ago.
mjf
Well-Known Member
QHM
I see QHM Portsmouth issued a LNTM advising a 15 knot limit in the E Solent for the Cowes fireworks last Friday.
How was that to be policed I beg?
I see QHM Portsmouth issued a LNTM advising a 15 knot limit in the E Solent for the Cowes fireworks last Friday.
How was that to be policed I beg?
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
That was one of my original points. AFAIK, there is no option of a fixed fine so you end up paying the costs as well as the draconian fine
fireball
Well-Known Member
Why is it draconian?
If someone is happy enough to ignore the well publicised speed limits and speeds well over the limit then they deserve to be taken to court ...
If someone is happy enough to ignore the well publicised speed limits and speeds well over the limit then they deserve to be taken to court ...
fireball
Well-Known Member
Re: QHM
There were plenty of blue flashing lights around during the night.
There were plenty of blue flashing lights around during the night.
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Because of what I've been saying all the way through this bloody post! Jeez. Its draconian to nail somebody for over £1000 in fines and costs when the average criminal gets away with far less. Perhaps you think that theft, robbery, mugging and car jacking is less serious than speeding through Chi harbour in a RIB. I don't. Period
Whitelighter
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Fortunately, in this country, we have a system of the punishment fitting the crime rather than the pocket and thats absolutely as it should be. It would be impossible to manage a justice system in which the level of every fine was adjusted according to the wealth of the perpetrator apart from being manifestly unfair
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry Mike but proportionate fines are already here. A couple of years ago I was prosecuted for speeding and sent to court. The ofence was 97mph on a dual carrige way - I didn't deny it, but apparently I had to go to court anyway. You have to submit your driving license befor hand ALONG with a statement signed and is a legal document declaring your earnings and savings/investments. So I get into the court with 5 other offenders and some little scrote is up first. You get to hear others ofences and his were noteworthy. He had, in one accident, been driving with:
No tax
No insurance
3 Bald Tyres
Speeding
Driving recklessly (wrote a womans car off and put her in hospital)
But cos this scrote is a council house yob without a penny to his name save what he can sponge of the state he gets 5 points ON A LICENSE HE DOESN@T EVEN HAVE and a £100 fine.
Me, turned up in a suit, was polite, courteous, wasn't chewing gum and didn't have any previous convictions. Now I had been driving a perfectly legal, insured and taxed BMW admitadly over the speed limit but had not done any harm or damage to people or property - the copper who nicked me even stated for the court I was driving well and within the capabilities of the conditions and the car. So what fine did I get?
£450 QUID!!!! Justice? bolloxs more like!
Fortunately, in this country, we have a system of the punishment fitting the crime rather than the pocket and thats absolutely as it should be. It would be impossible to manage a justice system in which the level of every fine was adjusted according to the wealth of the perpetrator apart from being manifestly unfair
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry Mike but proportionate fines are already here. A couple of years ago I was prosecuted for speeding and sent to court. The ofence was 97mph on a dual carrige way - I didn't deny it, but apparently I had to go to court anyway. You have to submit your driving license befor hand ALONG with a statement signed and is a legal document declaring your earnings and savings/investments. So I get into the court with 5 other offenders and some little scrote is up first. You get to hear others ofences and his were noteworthy. He had, in one accident, been driving with:
No tax
No insurance
3 Bald Tyres
Speeding
Driving recklessly (wrote a womans car off and put her in hospital)
But cos this scrote is a council house yob without a penny to his name save what he can sponge of the state he gets 5 points ON A LICENSE HE DOESN@T EVEN HAVE and a £100 fine.
Me, turned up in a suit, was polite, courteous, wasn't chewing gum and didn't have any previous convictions. Now I had been driving a perfectly legal, insured and taxed BMW admitadly over the speed limit but had not done any harm or damage to people or property - the copper who nicked me even stated for the court I was driving well and within the capabilities of the conditions and the car. So what fine did I get?
£450 QUID!!!! Justice? bolloxs more like!
Dave_Snelson
Well-Known Member
And again - I agree.
Some of the cr*p posted here has a knock-on direct affect on how the laws in this country are laid down and administered. Then we end up with a society that punishes insignificant things and lets the real b*stards like gun criminals and druggies ply their trade with impunity.
And as I have said before (but it clearly needs restating) we get the society that we deserve because we let the petty bureaucrats get away with their cowardice in not standing up to real crime.
Political correctness is at the root of all evils in the UK. Hang people who practice it!!
Some of the cr*p posted here has a knock-on direct affect on how the laws in this country are laid down and administered. Then we end up with a society that punishes insignificant things and lets the real b*stards like gun criminals and druggies ply their trade with impunity.
And as I have said before (but it clearly needs restating) we get the society that we deserve because we let the petty bureaucrats get away with their cowardice in not standing up to real crime.
Political correctness is at the root of all evils in the UK. Hang people who practice it!!
fireball
Well-Known Member
I don't believe speeding is worse than theiving or mugging or whatever - having seen a few of the documentaries about our road users and the pittance of a sentence they get I believe things need to be made much worse for these repeat offenders.
However, I don't believe that the fines for the two cases in Chi Harbour were over the top. If it means that the RIB and Jetski drivers don't speed in the harbour again it has done it's job.
However, I don't believe that the fines for the two cases in Chi Harbour were over the top. If it means that the RIB and Jetski drivers don't speed in the harbour again it has done it's job.
Steve Clayton
Well-Known Member
Reading with interest.
Anyone know where the fine money goes?????
Anyone know where the fine money goes?????
Major Catastrophe
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
There is at least one seal in the harbour - if everyone was allowed to speed then it could well end up hacked to death by props - at a slower speed it has a good chance of getting clear.
[/ QUOTE ]
After my encounter with a seal off Puffin Island N Wales, there are many of them, not just one,
I am told by local lifeboat crew that seals NEVER get hit by props. You are confusing them with Manatee, which are surprisingly rare in British waters.
There is at least one seal in the harbour - if everyone was allowed to speed then it could well end up hacked to death by props - at a slower speed it has a good chance of getting clear.
[/ QUOTE ]
After my encounter with a seal off Puffin Island N Wales, there are many of them, not just one,
I am told by local lifeboat crew that seals NEVER get hit by props. You are confusing them with Manatee, which are surprisingly rare in British waters.
fireball
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I am told by local lifeboat crew that seals NEVER get hit by props.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd like to know what they base this on...
Whilst in open water there is plenty of room for a seal (and it is seals we have!) to dive, in the relatively confined waters of Chi harbour there isn't so much room - especially if everyone was allowed to "speed" ...
Anyway - I can't see why they need to speed, especially within the harbour when there is so much free space outside the harbour.
I am told by local lifeboat crew that seals NEVER get hit by props.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd like to know what they base this on...
Whilst in open water there is plenty of room for a seal (and it is seals we have!) to dive, in the relatively confined waters of Chi harbour there isn't so much room - especially if everyone was allowed to "speed" ...
Anyway - I can't see why they need to speed, especially within the harbour when there is so much free space outside the harbour.
jonathankent
Well-Known Member
Why do people think speed limits are there? surely for safety reasons, why else do we have 30, 40, 50 etc on the roads for different locations.
I do not think the fines were OTT, imagine doing 3 or 4 times the speed limit on the road... you would get more than a £60 fixed penalty, go to court, probably get some points - which will cost you for the next 5 yrs on your insurance, and then end up with a fine and court costs.... all in all, probably not a cheap option.
There are no licences to get points on, no insurance to declare it to, so a big fine is the only way to get the message through... hit them where it hurts - normally the wallet! If the fine was only £60, I'm sure there would be more ribs speeding and £60 is naff all if they get caught in comparison to the running of it. I think it could be taken a stage further... ban the offenders from entering the harbour again.
The fine isn't just for speeding... its the fact there was potential for far worse and could have hurt someone somewhere.... imagine if he had crashed his rib into someone and then they sunk etc etc.... would people really say 'speeding isn't a real crime'... bollox, its as serious as the mugging, robbery, etc These that say it isn't a real crime... have they been caught speeding?
If you choose to ignore the speed limits, be it on the road or on the water, you know what you are doing and deserve to be treated so.
P.S. don't get me wrong, I am not an angel on the roads all the time, but I make that decision and know the consequences.
I do not think the fines were OTT, imagine doing 3 or 4 times the speed limit on the road... you would get more than a £60 fixed penalty, go to court, probably get some points - which will cost you for the next 5 yrs on your insurance, and then end up with a fine and court costs.... all in all, probably not a cheap option.
There are no licences to get points on, no insurance to declare it to, so a big fine is the only way to get the message through... hit them where it hurts - normally the wallet! If the fine was only £60, I'm sure there would be more ribs speeding and £60 is naff all if they get caught in comparison to the running of it. I think it could be taken a stage further... ban the offenders from entering the harbour again.
The fine isn't just for speeding... its the fact there was potential for far worse and could have hurt someone somewhere.... imagine if he had crashed his rib into someone and then they sunk etc etc.... would people really say 'speeding isn't a real crime'... bollox, its as serious as the mugging, robbery, etc These that say it isn't a real crime... have they been caught speeding?
If you choose to ignore the speed limits, be it on the road or on the water, you know what you are doing and deserve to be treated so.
P.S. don't get me wrong, I am not an angel on the roads all the time, but I make that decision and know the consequences.
Major Catastrophe
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to know what they base this on...
[/ QUOTE ]
I believe they base it on the fact that seals, and dolphins, just don't get hit by props. They are very agile, I suspect.
Don't get me wrong, I am all for speed limits in the right places, but not to bring seals in as the reason for them.
I am also worried that once a few large fines have been imposed, new speed limits will apear to take advantage of this new milch cow. It could be a good earner for councils who only have their revenue to think about.
I'd like to know what they base this on...
[/ QUOTE ]
I believe they base it on the fact that seals, and dolphins, just don't get hit by props. They are very agile, I suspect.
Don't get me wrong, I am all for speed limits in the right places, but not to bring seals in as the reason for them.
I am also worried that once a few large fines have been imposed, new speed limits will apear to take advantage of this new milch cow. It could be a good earner for councils who only have their revenue to think about.