Disposing of waste in paradise

[RupertW]

What a thoroughly unpleasant post.
I hope you are proud of it.

I agreed with pretty much all of it, particularly his response to the unpleasant pious remark.

 

[NormanB]

It is good that sailors behave in a responsible fashion and I figure most of them do.
It is a pity the countries that charge them fees to clear in and out of those countries do not provide the facility to responsibly dispose of rubbish in return for the fees.
It would be much better to publicise (name and shame) those countries not providing such facilities.

 

[laika]

I take a pragmatic approach, (see previous post) but the one thing which makes me want to drain my sump oil into the oggin and pick up my dolphin harpoon is holier-than-thou, tsk-tsking greens.

Given your attitude towards the effort required to dispose of waste in paradise might I suggest the inferno might suit you better?

 

[FWB]

Paradise Lost
http://www.news.com.au/travel/world...e/news-story/3a18c66757d8d832f294fc90a3b4e1ab

 

[Prasutigus]

Given your attitude towards the effort required to dispose of waste in paradise might I suggest the inferno might suit you better?

"Your attitude is wrong, you are lazy, therefore you should burn in everlasting hellfire"..

Behold the new religion!

 

[Elemental]

Yes it's a great idea, plenty of homes for little critters, and it will either corrode away before the heat death of the solar system, or it won't, who cares?

Why does it matter if I sail ' anywhere near' you? Will it threaten the pink fluffy baby dolphins with their ickle smiling faces?
I thought this thread was about dumping gash overboard in paradise?

(Or are you signalling your green virtue by feigning disgust at those of different, (but equally valid) viewpoints, in order to protect your sanctimonious ethical purity from contact contamination by mariners of dubious faith in the holy religion of the 'environment'? )

I take a pragmatic approach, (see previous post) but the one thing which makes me want to drain my sump oil into the oggin and pick up my dolphin harpoon is holier-than-thou, tsk-tsking greens.

Happy New Year.

Very clever, really thoughtful post. I'm not especially a green, nor do I pretend to be holier than anyone - but I simply don't understand why you dump stuff anywhere rather than taking it away. It's a valid question, and the notion of taking it away is at least as valid as your own point of view.

 

[Resolution]

A lot of people have suggested that one should take stuff back "home" to be dealt with there. But how much that we put in for recycling does actually get recycled? How much is then incinerated or landfilled by our recycling agents? I think this approach is in danger of simply passing the parcel on out of our sight.

Maybe now that the Chinese have decided to stop taking on our difficult recycling we will see some more honest appraisal.
Peter

 

[Heckler]

Yes it's a great idea, plenty of homes for little critters, and it will either corrode away before the heat death of the solar system, or it won't, who cares?

Why does it matter if I sail ' anywhere near' you? Will it threaten the pink fluffy baby dolphins with their ickle smiling faces?
I thought this thread was about dumping gash overboard in paradise?

(Or are you signalling your green virtue by feigning disgust at those of different, (but equally valid) viewpoints, in order to protect your sanctimonious ethical purity from contact contamination by mariners of dubious faith in the holy religion of the 'environment'? )

I take a pragmatic approach, (see previous post) but the one thing which makes me want to drain my sump oil into the oggin and pick up my dolphin harpoon is holier-than-thou, tsk-tsking greens.

Happy New Year.

Love it!
Stu

 

[Deleted member 36384]

A lot of people have suggested that one should take stuff back "home" to be dealt with there. But how much that we put in for recycling does actually get recycled? How much is then incinerated or landfilled by our recycling agents? I think this approach is in danger of simply passing the parcel on out of our sight.

Maybe now that the Chinese have decided to stop taking on our difficult recycling we will see some more honest appraisal.
Peter

Your conflating two issues recycling and dumping gash at sea. Eventually a destination will be reached that has a waste disposal system. That is likely to be a bin, dumpster and rubbish tip but that is still better than littering the seabed and burning small amounts on beaches. At least the waste is more or less concentrated in one area. I get your point though, I was in Aruba last year and their rubbish dump is just a huge pile being slowly pushed into and filling a lagoon. In Singapore they use their rubbish to reclaim land that is eventually built on. In my opinion both are better options that dumping gash at sea.

The idea of littering the the sea has now been addressed by MRPOL and all overboard discharge of plastics, metals, glass is prohibited. There is a lot of work going on to make sure that ports have facilities for garbage collection. Note that food wastes are allowed to be discharged. I understand that MARPOL applies to commercial operations. A brief summary can be found here: -

http://www.imo.org/en/OurWork/Envir...on/Annex V discharge requirements 07-2013.pdf

The size of the problem https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...&isAllowed=y&usg=AOvVaw27oaj_r1W3S_BBfuWiJvCR

Those who want to dump tin cans and glass bottles overboard are out of touch with the current state of affairs regarding garbage at sea and should reconsider.

 

[RupertW]

Your conflating two issues recycling and dumping gash at sea. Eventually a destination will be reached that has a waste disposal system. That is likely to be a bin, dumpster and rubbish tip but that is still better than littering the seabed and burning small amounts on beaches. At least the waste is more or less concentrated in one area. I get your point though, I was in Aruba last year and their rubbish dump is just a huge pile being slowly pushed into and filling a lagoon. In Singapore they use their rubbish to reclaim land that is eventually built on. In my opinion both are better options that dumping gash at sea.

The idea of littering the the sea has now been addressed by MRPOL and all overboard discharge of plastics, metals, glass is prohibited. There is a lot of work going on to make sure that ports have facilities for garbage collection. Note that food wastes are allowed to be discharged. I understand that MARPOL applies to commercial operations. A brief summary can be found here: -

http://www.imo.org/en/OurWork/Envir...on/Annex V discharge requirements 07-2013.pdf

The size of the problem https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...&isAllowed=y&usg=AOvVaw27oaj_r1W3S_BBfuWiJvCR

Those who want to dump tin cans and glass bottles overboard are out of touch with the current state of affairs regarding garbage at sea and should reconsider.

Anyone reading those links ( which are clear and rather good ) would correctly conclude that plastics are an overwhelming problem and must not go overboard but unless you are leaving them on a beach where they will be unsightly there is no recorded problem or issue with glass or tin going overboard.

Carry on as normal then.

 

[BabaYaga]

Orange rids are about the only food I hesitate about as I see them floating and on beaches and although not exactly offensive they are a bit untidy.

Yes it's a great idea, plenty of homes for little critters, and it will either corrode away before the heat death of the solar system, or it won't, who cares?

I agreed with pretty much all of it, particularly his response to the unpleasant pious remark.

but unless you are leaving them on a beach where they will be unsightly there is no recorded problem or issue with glass or tin going overboard.

Carry on as normal then.

So when something is out of YOUR sight, it is not a problem?

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Anyone reading those links ( which are clear and rather good ) would correctly conclude that plastics are an overwhelming problem and must not go overboard but unless you are leaving them on a beach where they will be unsightly there is no recorded problem or issue with glass or tin going overboard.

Carry on as normal then.

That is not what the information I posted suggests: glass, tins and other stuff are not to be dumped; read the last two lines of the table if you wish to understand the point being made. I assume the IMO have taken expert advice on the matter regarding tins and bottles. So, no, carrying on as normal is not supported by the IMO via MARPOL.

Type of garbage	Ships outside special areas	Ships within special areas	Offshore platforms and all ships within 500 mof such platforms
Food wastecomminuted or ground
Food waste notcomminuted or ground
Cargo residues1 notcontained in wash water
Cargo residues1contained in wash water
Cleaning agents andadditives1 contained incargo hold wash water
Cleaning agents andadditives1 contained indeck and externalsurfaces wash water
Carcasses of animalscarried on board ascargo and which diedduring the voyage
Mixed garbage

[TD="bgcolor: rgb(80.000000%, 100.000000%, 60.000000%)"] Discharge permitted ≥3 nm from the nearest land and en route


[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(80.000000%, 100.000000%, 60.000000%)"]

Discharge permitted ≥12 nm from the nearest land and en route


[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(80.000000%, 100.000000%, 60.000000%)"] Discharge permitted ≥12 nm from the nearest land


[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: rgb(80.000000%, 100.000000%, 60.000000%)"] Discharge permitted ≥ 12 nm from the nearest landand en route


[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 0.000000%, 0.000000%)"] Discharge prohibited

[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 0.000000%, 0.000000%)"] Discharge prohibited


[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: rgb(80.000000%, 100.000000%, 60.000000%), colspan: 1"] Discharge permitted ≥12 nm from the nearest land and en route


[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 0.000000%, 0.000000%)"] Discharge prohibited

[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 0.000000%, 0.000000%)"] Discharge prohibited


[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 75.300000%, 0.000000%)"] Discharge only permittedin specific circumstances 2 and ≥12 nm from the nearestland and en route

[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 0.000000%, 0.000000%)"] Discharge prohibited


[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: rgb(80.000000%, 100.000000%, 60.000000%), colspan: 1"] Discharge permitted


[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 75.300000%, 0.000000%)"] Discharge only permittedin specific circumstances 2 and ≥12 nm from the nearestland and en route

[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 0.000000%, 0.000000%)"] Discharge prohibited


[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: rgb(80.000000%, 100.000000%, 60.000000%)"] Discharge permitted


[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 0.000000%, 0.000000%)"] Discharge prohibited

[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: rgb(80.000000%, 100.000000%, 60.000000%)"] Discharge permitted as far from the nearest landas possible and en route


[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 0.000000%, 0.000000%)"] Discharge prohibited


[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 0.000000%, 0.000000%)"] Discharge prohibited


[/TD]

[TD="colspan: 1"] All other garbageincluding plastics,domestic wastes,cooking oil, incineratorashes, operationalwastes and fishing gear


[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 0.000000%, 0.000000%)"] Discharge prohibited


[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 0.000000%, 0.000000%)"] Discharge prohibited


[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 0.000000%, 0.000000%)"] Discharge prohibited


[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 0.000000%, 0.000000%)"] [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 0.000000%, 0.000000%)"] [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 0.000000%, 0.000000%)"]

[/TD]

[TD="colspan: 3"] When garbage is mixed with or contaminated by other substances prohibited from dischargeor having different discharge requirements, the more stringent requirements shall apply


[/TD]

 

[fisherman]

One of my crew had worked in Tristan da Cunha and was dismayed at the amount of plastic rubbish washed up, he was no eco warrior but would not throw even a shred of clingfilm over. On the other hand, in re metals, they dumped a whole warship in Whitesand bay. I dump old pots, having removed anything reusable, as they would only end up under the land if skipped, and they make a habitat for marine life, after a year or two look just like any other rock. (I've picked up old lost pots by accident).

 

[Heckler]

Your conflating two issues recycling and dumping gash at sea. Eventually a destination will be reached that has a waste disposal system. That is likely to be a bin, dumpster and rubbish tip but that is still better than littering the seabed and burning small amounts on beaches. At least the waste is more or less concentrated in one area. I get your point though, I was in Aruba last year and their rubbish dump is just a huge pile being slowly pushed into and filling a lagoon. In Singapore they use their rubbish to reclaim land that is eventually built on. In my opinion both are better options that dumping gash at sea.

The idea of littering the the sea has now been addressed by MRPOL and all overboard discharge of plastics, metals, glass is prohibited. There is a lot of work going on to make sure that ports have facilities for garbage collection. Note that food wastes are allowed to be discharged. I understand that MARPOL applies to commercial operations. A brief summary can be found here: -

http://www.imo.org/en/OurWork/Envir...on/Annex V discharge requirements 07-2013.pdf

The size of the problem https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...&isAllowed=y&usg=AOvVaw27oaj_r1W3S_BBfuWiJvCR

Those who want to dump tin cans and glass bottles overboard are out of touch with the current state of affairs regarding garbage at sea and should reconsider.

We are talkng about the San Blas Islands
Stu

 

[Heckler]

That is not what the information I posted suggests: glass, tins and other stuff are not to be dumped; read the last two lines of the table if you wish to understand the point being made. I assume the IMO have taken expert advice on the matter regarding tins and bottles. So, no, carrying on as normal is not supported by the IMO via MARPOL.

Type of garbage	Ships outside special areas	Ships within special areas	Offshore platforms and all ships within 500 mof such platforms
Food wastecomminuted or ground
Food waste notcomminuted or ground
Cargo residues1 notcontained in wash water
Cargo residues1contained in wash water
Cleaning agents andadditives1 contained incargo hold wash water
Cleaning agents andadditives1 contained indeck and externalsurfaces wash water
Carcasses of animalscarried on board ascargo and which diedduring the voyage
Mixed garbage

[TD="bgcolor: rgb(80.000000%, 100.000000%, 60.000000%)"] Discharge permitted ≥3 nm from the nearest land and en route


[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(80.000000%, 100.000000%, 60.000000%)"]

Discharge permitted ≥12 nm from the nearest land and en route


[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(80.000000%, 100.000000%, 60.000000%)"] Discharge permitted ≥12 nm from the nearest land


[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: rgb(80.000000%, 100.000000%, 60.000000%)"] Discharge permitted ≥ 12 nm from the nearest landand en route


[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 0.000000%, 0.000000%)"] Discharge prohibited

[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 0.000000%, 0.000000%)"] Discharge prohibited


[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: rgb(80.000000%, 100.000000%, 60.000000%), colspan: 1"] Discharge permitted ≥12 nm from the nearest land and en route


[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 0.000000%, 0.000000%)"] Discharge prohibited

[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 0.000000%, 0.000000%)"] Discharge prohibited


[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 75.300000%, 0.000000%)"] Discharge only permittedin specific circumstances 2 and ≥12 nm from the nearestland and en route

[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 0.000000%, 0.000000%)"] Discharge prohibited


[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: rgb(80.000000%, 100.000000%, 60.000000%), colspan: 1"] Discharge permitted


[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 75.300000%, 0.000000%)"] Discharge only permittedin specific circumstances 2 and ≥12 nm from the nearestland and en route

[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 0.000000%, 0.000000%)"] Discharge prohibited


[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: rgb(80.000000%, 100.000000%, 60.000000%)"] Discharge permitted


[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 0.000000%, 0.000000%)"] Discharge prohibited

[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: rgb(80.000000%, 100.000000%, 60.000000%)"] Discharge permitted as far from the nearest landas possible and en route


[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 0.000000%, 0.000000%)"] Discharge prohibited


[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 0.000000%, 0.000000%)"] Discharge prohibited


[/TD]

[TD="colspan: 1"] All other garbageincluding plastics,domestic wastes,cooking oil, incineratorashes, operationalwastes and fishing gear


[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 0.000000%, 0.000000%)"] Discharge prohibited


[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 0.000000%, 0.000000%)"] Discharge prohibited


[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 0.000000%, 0.000000%)"] Discharge prohibited


[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 0.000000%, 0.000000%)"] [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 0.000000%, 0.000000%)"] [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: rgb(100.000000%, 0.000000%, 0.000000%)"]

[/TD]

[TD="colspan: 3"] When garbage is mixed with or contaminated by other substances prohibited from dischargeor having different discharge requirements, the more stringent requirements shall apply


[/TD]

San Blas Islands
Stu

 

[RupertW]

So when something is out of YOUR sight, it is not a problem?

When it's out of everybody's sight and doing no harm then it's not a problem. PLastics from the links clealry are a problem, and the unsightly comment is from the very good link to the evidence and thought behind marine litter issues, but only mentions glass as unsightly beach rubbish in a small section on about page 30.

The rules and regs table link doesn't cover evidence just current legislation so doesn't add anything to the argument except a reference to the conclusions drawn by legislators.

If you can't see something, it does no or less harm than the alternative means of disposal and it's convenient then why would you want to stop a practice? I can't take stuff home from the boat even in a first world country so my options are to dump the harmless stuff in deep water or bung it into a village tip which will be burnt, bulldozed or tipped out to sea, plastic and all.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

We are talkng about the San Blas Islands
Stu

San Blas Islands
Stu

Yes, I know that.

 

[Cheery]

We went on a boat trip 20 years ago in Greece and were told about turtles swallowing plastic bags in mistake for squid. I was already recycling what I could, not as easy to do as today, and I vowed to step up my game. I opened a fish and chip shop 8 years ago on a fully eco basis. I use boxes made from sugar cane as opposed to polystyrene and ironically these come from China and the factory is on the same site as the sugar plantation.

 

[BabaYaga]

When it's out of everybody's sight and doing no harm then it's not a problem.
If you can't see something, it does no or less harm than the alternative means of disposal and it's convenient then why would you want to stop a practice?

Apart from all other considerations of dumping stuff, I reckon a lot of people go to 'paradises' like this to snorkel and dive. A seabed littered with cans and bottles is just as untidy as orange peel on the beach in my view.

The rules and regs table link doesn't cover evidence just current legislation so doesn't add anything to the argument except a reference to the conclusions drawn by legislators.

So legislation is just an opinion?

I can't take stuff home from the boat even in a first world country so my options are to dump the harmless stuff in deep water

If you can get stuff TO the boat, surely you must be able to get it FROM the boat? No need to take it home, just to somewhere where it can be disposed of in a reasonable and lawful way.

 

[blenkinsop]

When we were in the San Blas it seemed common practice for those cruisers who were spending sevral months there to get together and have an occsional trash burning party.
An alternative was to pay a local to take a bag of relevant trash. he might then be observed tipping into the sea when he thought he was out of sight!
Both when in remote areas and crossing oceans all our non-biodegradable trash was kept on board until we reached a suitable disposal point.