Disposing of red diesel

S

sutton sailor

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 Sep 2011
Messages
94
Visit site
I am I right in thinking if I want to go to France, Spain or Portugal and have red diesel in my tanks I will risk a fine. I have a 40 gallon tank in the keel and an 11 gallon day tank. It has always been my practice to keep them both full at all times, to discourage condensation. I only motor when there is very little wind, so some seasons I may only use 20 gallons. At this rate even if I was prepared to go to sea with half empty tanks it could take 3 years to use it up. I would like be able to go abroad before then. Any sugestions on how to dispose of it legally with out just dumping it, and I would prefer not to waste it.
 
Some of the fuel distributors also buy bac fuel so perhaps the idea may be to club together with some like minded owwners to get enough of the stuff together to make it worthwhile. They deliver 205 litre barrels so probably look for similar ammounts to take back. That way you will be disposing of it properly and getting a little cash back to perhaps
 
Sell it to someone not planning to cross the channel? Either a fellow sailor or anyone else who uses diesel off the road. When I took out KS's old tank I gave the fuel in it to a mate who runs generators, in exchange for lending the lifting gear to take the engine out.

Pete
 
Last edited:
If your in Portsmouth harbour I'll buy some red diesel off you, I'm not planning to go abroad anytime soon so am happy to fill up with red diesel, I have 2 x 200 litre tanks and only have about 100 litres onboard at the moment so space for 300 more litres
 
I work on a land fill site. we use 2000 litres a day. If there's one near you I'm sure they would welcome it and probably pay good money.
 
sutton sailor said:
I am I right in thinking if I want to go to France, Spain or Portugal and have red diesel in my tanks I will risk a fine. I have a 40 gallon tank in the keel and an 11 gallon day tank. It has always been my practice to keep them both full at all times, to discourage condensation. I only motor when there is very little wind, so some seasons I may only use 20 gallons. At this rate even if I was prepared to go to sea with half empty tanks it could take 3 years to use it up. I would like be able to go abroad before then. Any sugestions on how to dispose of it legally with out just dumping it, and I would prefer not to waste it.
Click to expand...

The only country known to be a risk is Belgium. It seems the other countries we sail to are taking a more pragmatic approach. Why is that, we wonder? The rank stupidity of the HMRC in now giving away our negotiating position may well soon prejudice the relationship with other EU countries - but no evidence of it yet. As things stand you would be taking no real risk if you head south.

What I think a lot of us will end up doing is running our red low then diluting it heavily with white to make a passable presentation if challenged. But cleaning out to laboratory standards is not going to be affordable by many. This will not satisfy the awkward forensic customs officer since the red marker is detectable even in low concentrations - so a pass standard will have to be agreed that meets the spirit of the fuel directive.

The result many of us would want is time to make an adjustment to the general EU standard, marinas to switch to a marine grade white diesel by early 2013, and our European cousins to look the other way for at least another year, knowing we are limping along in the "right" direction.

You might also add - and the bloody Commission with its lunatic harmonisation and litigation craze to go back to sleep, and our own officials to wake up and protect our interests professionally! But I couldn't possibly comment...........

PWG
 
PeterGibbs said:
What I think a lot of us will end up doing is running our red low then diluting it heavily with white to make a passable presentation if challenged. But cleaning out to laboratory standards is not going to be affordable by many. This will not satisfy the awkward forensic customs officer since the red marker is detectable even in low concentrations - so a pass standard will have to be agreed that meets the spirit of the fuel directive.
Click to expand...
There is already an agreed standard of 0.12mg of marker per litre ([URL="http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/resources/documents/taxation/excise_duties/energy_products/legislation/euromarker_report.pdf"]here[/URL]) The UK marks diesel at the highest concentration of 9mg/l so that means you have to dilute your red fuel with white at a ratio of 1:75. In reality, that means that a 100l tank has to me drained to 1.3l and then refilled to 100l with white (or more likely 100L run down to 20l and refilled to 100 3 times) to achieve the required dilution.
 
Sea_Spray said:
There is already an agreed standard of 0.12mg of marker per litre ([URL="http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/resources/documents/taxation/excise_duties/energy_products/legislation/euromarker_report.pdf"]here[/URL]) The UK marks diesel at the highest concentration of 9mg/l so that means you have to dilute your red fuel with white at a ratio of 1:75. In reality, that means that a 100l tank has to me drained to 1.3l and then refilled to 100l with white (or more likely 100L run down to 20l and refilled to 100 3 times) to achieve the required dilution.
Click to expand...

Maths is not my strong point but I don't think so.

100 litre tank.

Run it down to 10 litres. Add 20 litres white. Concentration of red now 33%

Run it down to 10 litres. Add 20 litres white. Concentration of red now 11%

Run it down to 10 litres. Add 20 litres white. Concentration of red now 3%

Run it down to 10 litres. Add 20 litres white. Concentration of red now 1%

Run it down to 10 litres. Add 90 litres white. Concentration of red now 0.1%

You can go from 100% red to almost pure white with 170 litres of fuel.

There may be even more 'efficient' ways of doing this - grateful for suggestions.
 
Twister_Ken said:
Maths is not my strong point but I don't think so.

100 litre tank.

Run it down to 10 litres. Add 20 litres white. Concentration of red now 33%
.....................................
Run it down to 10 litres. Add 90 litres white. Concentration of red now 0.1%

You can go from 100% red to almost pure white with 170 litres of fuel.

There may be even more 'efficient' ways of doing this - grateful for suggestions.
Click to expand...

Empty tank - refill with white?
 
sutton sailor said:
I am I right in thinking if I want to go to France, Spain or Portugal and have red diesel in my tanks I will risk a fine. I have a 40 gallon tank in the keel and an 11 gallon day tank. It has always been my practice to keep them both full at all times, to discourage condensation. I only motor when there is very little wind, so some seasons I may only use 20 gallons. At this rate even if I was prepared to go to sea with half empty tanks it could take 3 years to use it up. I would like be able to go abroad before then. Any sugestions on how to dispose of it legally with out just dumping it, and I would prefer not to waste it.
Click to expand...

You could re-plumb the system so that the big tank was only used for heating, and a generator if you have one. That can stay full of red. For now at least.

If you only only use 20 gallons a season, an 11 gallon tank will do. Personally I like to have a sealed can or two of known clean fuel in reserve, so a couple of two gallon cans would be useful. Empty the day tank into the keel tank or sell the contents as suggested.
I would just get a couple of 25 litre plastic drums and empty the day tank into them for sale at my leisure.

There is a bloke in our club who runs excavators, people like him get through a lot of red.
Fishing boats use it at a fair rate too.
 
Twister_Ken said:
Maths is not my strong point but I don't think so.

100 litre tank.

Run it down to 10 litres. Add 20 litres white. Concentration of red now 33%

Run it down to 10 litres. Add 20 litres white. Concentration of red now 11%

Run it down to 10 litres. Add 20 litres white. Concentration of red now 3%

Run it down to 10 litres. Add 20 litres white. Concentration of red now 1%

Run it down to 10 litres. Add 90 litres white. Concentration of red now 0.1%

You can go from 100% red to almost pure white with 170 litres of fuel.

There may be even more 'efficient' ways of doing this - grateful for suggestions.
Click to expand...
Good thinking. Sounds like the sort of thing a goal seek formula in a spreadsheet should be able to calculate...

The biggest prob for me (and I suspect others) is that my 100L tank is brim full over winter, so getting to 10L is going to take ages...
 
Run it down to 10 litres.
Suck out remaining red and water, dirt etc with Pela oil extractor.

add two litres of white.
Use the pela to pull that through the filters.
Change filters
Fill with white
Go sailing
 
lw395 said:
Run it down to 10 litres.
Suck out remaining red and water, dirt etc with Pela oil extractor.

add two litres of white.
Use the pela to pull that through the filters.
Change filters
Fill with white
Go sailing
Click to expand...
Yeah, 35 galls of white from where! Carry in 5 gallon bidons from Tesco a mile away, then fill it whilst tied up to the pontoon in the marina? Yeah right!
Better for our useless govt officials to pressure belgium to stop its antics!
Stu
 
skipper_stu said:
Yeah, 35 galls of white from where! Carry in 5 gallon bidons from Tesco a mile away, then fill it whilst tied up to the pontoon in the marina? Yeah right!
Better for our useless govt officials to pressure belgium to stop its antics!
Stu
Click to expand...

As you say, the government is useless, so I'd start bidding for fuel cans on eBay soonest.
 
skipper_stu said:
Yeah, 35 galls of white from where! Carry in 5 gallon bidons from Tesco a mile away, then fill it whilst tied up to the pontoon in the marina? Yeah right!
Better for our useless govt officials to pressure belgium to stop its antics!
Stu
Click to expand...

Well personally, I never had much problem transferring fuel to and from cans on a swinging mooring. Pick a flattish day. Be prepared with the right hose with a 1/4 turn valve in it, some kitchen roll and a couple of poly bags to put anything oily in. Think it through and there is no more reason to spill fuel than filling at the barge.
It's certainly no worse than changing the engine oil.
Changing the filters is always a pest, but I had a tupperware ideal for dropping the old filter into, with a good double-clipped lid. £1.50 at adsa IIRC.

If I were going to make a habit of it, a spare lid for a 25litre drum with a dip tube and hose fitted might be worthwhile.

Feel free to rant at the government, I wish you success, but I won't be banking my holiday on it.
 
sutton sailor said:
I am I right in thinking if I want to go to France, Spain or Portugal and have red diesel in my tanks I will risk a fine. I have a 40 gallon tank in the keel and an 11 gallon day tank. It has always been my practice to keep them both full at all times, to discourage condensation. I only motor when there is very little wind, so some seasons I may only use 20 gallons. At this rate even if I was prepared to go to sea with half empty tanks it could take 3 years to use it up. I would like be able to go abroad before then. Any sugestions on how to dispose of it legally with out just dumping it, and I would prefer not to waste it.
Click to expand...

Looking at this a slightly different way, what makes you think that your red diesel will be illegal in those countries?

So far only Belgium has chosen to interpret the European directives in such a perverse way. I have not heard of any cases where british boaters have been fined for possession of duty-paid red diesel in France, Spain or Portugal and I'm pretty sure that any such cases would have been splashed all over to forum by now. Until I hear differently, I will not worry about the red currently in my tanks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top