Displacement as indicator of quality - Beneteau Oceanis 54??

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confusedsailor

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Hi all,

I have a question that may involve some "religion" :)

I am looking to buy a used Beneteau Oceanis 54 from 2009 - shallow draft. It has a displacement around 14,5 ton, which is around 2,5 ton less than other types I am comparing to. E.g. Jeanneau SO 54 DS, Bavaria 55 etc. They all have a displacement of around 17 ton.

So my question is, can I use this as an indication of anything in terms of how the boat is built. I do not see many articles on the Oceanis 54, nor videos of Atlantic crossings (although this is not the plan).

In my simple mind, I am just trying to find out where the 2,5 ton material came off. Keel weight is the same as others.

Should I expect significantly thinner fibre glass, or ?

Also if possible, if any owners of a Beneteau oceanis 54 have a good advise, I would be truly grateful if you can share.

Thanks in advance.

Br. Brian
 
Who knows where the weight difference comes from. They may have used lighter materials (nomex instead of foam, foam instead of balsa, woven rovings instead of chop-strand, etc.). They may also be using different manufacturing techniques which require less resin.

Less weight is generally a good thing, because it means that the hull is "driven" more easily and accelerates quicker, putting less load on the rig.

The Bene 54 is lovely boat, and will stand up to anything you want to chuck at it.
 
Welcome to the Forum.

Could be a whole host of reasons. You would need a parts explosion for all the boats you are looking with weights of individual components, plus a detailed review of their manufacturing processes at the time each boat was build. e.g. was vacuum bagging used, what are the tolerances worked to.
 
Hi and thanks for your reply (all) :)

Interesting article, it seems that all characteristics really are linked to the displacement. I have compared the data and used the recommendations in the article to our Bavaria 46 and it doesn't speak well for the Beneteau Oceanis 54 :(

Initially we thought that the Displacement listed was a mistake, but unfortunately not, so I guess I will compromise in terms of stability and maybe also buld quality, as the 2.5 ton must have gone somewhere.

I know less weight is equal speed and performance, but I also think that race is not a concept for this type of boat. If I compare with the Beneteau Oceanis 55, which should be the new model, here the displacement came back again, in the same range of comparable models.

I think I will inform the seller that we will rethink before making the final decision....
 
Hi and thanks for your reply,

I assume that the displacement is comparable to the weight of the boat, meaning that if I take off 5 ton for the keel, the weight of the hull for the Beneteau 54 is around 9.5 ton. Compared to a similar boat e.g. Bavaria 55 or Jeanneau 54 they are around 12,5 ton.

Thinking that wood and interior of e.g. the Bavaria is the same as the beneteau, engine etc. and a rough guess is that this would account for around 3 ton, (this is absolutely just an UNqualified guess), then the fibre and construction itself would be 6 ton versus 9,5-10 ton. So as mentioned, in my simple mind I see 40% less material compared to similar boats ??! I really dont thnik Beneteau is 40% more clever than the competitors. I tried to send an email to Beneteau to get some info, but they never replied, so I guess it will be quite hard to actually figure out what is what, and in the end it will come down to what I trust the most I guess.
 
confusedsailor said:
.......I tried to send an email to Beneteau to get some info, but they never replied.....
Click to expand...

That must be disappointing. I once tried the old fashioned way and wrote a letter. I received a courteous response but it was only to direct me to their Dealer network.

I wouldn’t dismiss the 54 based upon layman interpretation of statistics. The 54 is a huge boat (compared to what must be an average owned by contributors on here). I can’t imagine that she’s anything but a very comfortable and capable cruiser.

What’s the view of your family? For what type of sailing would she be destined?

Have you tried the Beneteau official website forum or any of the local country owners club sites? Talked to a Beneteau Dealer?
 
Hi - the boat will only be for 2 people, sometimes 4, however we do not have an urgent space requirement and the Bavaria 46 is still good, but the time to try something else has come.

It will just be in the Med, but should be doing the distance from Barcelona to Sicily with no problems, and I just wanna make sure that we do not buy something that will be soft and look like a banana after a while. I did call some Beneteau dealers as well, but I got no answer.

Last week we scheduled the survey, but over the last few days I have decided to cancel this on monday, and exclude the Beneteau Oceanis 54. If anything, we should have rented one first, and as we cannot try this out before buying, it is too risky I believe.
 
Just a thought. The beneteau has a lower displacemey but you said the keel weights more or less same as the other boats. So, it is a boat with a higher ballast ratio which is a good thing. Provided of course the other boats are shallow draft too.
 
That is true, the ballast ratio seems fine, although none of the others are shallow draft (20 cm missing). Also, the beam should make it quite stable and stiff as well. My doubt is really not as much its ability to sail, and i am sure it will do the trick in most conditions for us, but I am only concerned about the durability of the hull. Since they constructed this in 2009, in the financial crunch, maybe it was an attempt to make it a little cheaper, but just a wild guess and maybe not fair.
Anyway, on thursday we will go back to Barcelona and review the Bavaria 55 which was our second choice, as we will never find rest in the Beneteau 54 I trust.
 
Beneteau have a lot of experience with building strong light structures into their boats.
I don't know if the 54 has the kind of 'liner' structure that the 40.7 does?
OK, one or two 40.7s have failed after heavy groundings and dubious repairs, but it shows that boats can be built down to a lower weight with modern CAD and manufacture.
Beneteau certainly have the technology to build a light yacht and many years experience of doing so.
I'd imagine all these builders have proper QA processes and acreditation from Lloyds or somebody?

Traditional GRP yacht design weighs more.
A lot of yachtbuilders do not place so much value in light weight and won't invest in the CAD time or higher-tech manufacture. They don't build enough for the design time to be economic.
There is a whole spectrum between race-boat technology and sub-contract builders who chuck more resin in because it's faster than doing a quality job. In the middle there are people just following traditional rules of thumb for scantlings.

I would suggest talking to Beneteau or their agents, then you might know if the displacement is a result of high quality design or not. Get some diagrams of the structure. Compare with the others.

It's a major purchase, so it's best to do some homework.

Also beware the manufacturer's quoted weight or displacement can mean various things, a full load of water and fuel, with or without various loose items etc.
 
Thanks :) - however, we actually decided today NOT to go for the Beneteau. We called off the survey and informed the seller that we had second thoughts, as we have been going forwards and backwards the last week. I do not find much information on this yacht, as compared to others. It seems very well though, and we really like the interior, but somehow I do not trust it.
What is really making the final decision is the later model of this, called Beneteau 55. If this way of building the yacht was successful, they would for sure have continued :) - they did not. The Beneteau 55 has the same size, but is weight 3 ton more, so back to normal and the same weight as the comparable models.
I just wanna make sure that there is at least some fibre glass to hold the keel :D - thanks so much for your inputs (all) - I sincerely appreciate this.
 
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