Disgrace in Mercury today

Is life so dull in this particular marina that a minor shouty cock up provokes such judgemental glee from idle bystanders.
Time you got out of the Solent and into the real world perhaps ? :)
 
oldgit said:
Is life so dull in this particular marina that a minor shouty cock up provokes such judgemental glee from idle bystanders.
Time you got out of the Solent and into the real world perhaps ? :)
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There was nothing minor about it. It was disgusting and disgraceful. I think the guy may get banned from MDL and if he does, he deserves it. I will write in support of the ban.

It was an easy berth and there was little tide running. He lost his steering (so he said) which is why he made such a pigs ear of it. He had a bowthruster so he could still have got in bows to, but he chose to come in stern to. There were loads of people around including me and a school boat full of students. A shout of "I've lost my steering" would have had people rushing to help instead of getting the popcorn out as he yelled at his crew.

When the dockie ran down to help he hurled disgusting abuse at him. It was totally undeserved, and what he was saying was quite wrong too. The dockies have seen countless boats pinned on a row of anchors by the tide for whatever reason, and they know what to do - and putting the boat in neutral is one of those things. Mr Hanse man took exception to that advice and so started his disgusting tirade. If the boat hadn't lost their steering they would have been asked to leave immediately. I don't know how the dockie didn't smack him because I think I might well have done!

When they calmed down and did their debrief over a beer, I heard they saying how it was all OK as they hadn't scratched the boat, and that the dockies advice had been stupid. "he actually said that?" i heard them say, but way of excusing their thuggishness. If the skipper had lost his cool and had been a real man he would have gone up and apologised later. But no, he convinced himself he was right.

They are a disgrace to the boating community.
 
C'mon guys, name some names and lets have some piccies. There's no point in trying to shame somebody for their bad behaviour without naming names
 
freddy the frog said:
ok not who i thought it was
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Hey, Freddy, it wasn't me! My magic moment occurred 7 years ago at Mercury! Our hull is AWB white!
Don't get me barred from Mercury by mistake!

The exit dong from PS last week was mine, but we were being blown off! Honest.

Have to +100% everything said about this Hanse skippers attitude-we are grateful if someone lends a hand/advice when things going bottom up-the only person to be annoyed with is yourself as skipper.

Are there not rules these days about abusive conduct towards staff at most places?

Is this another 'chequebook' starter 40'er skipper incident, well you put a few scratches on the new boat sooner or later, deal with it-or go on a course!
 
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Dear Paul

What a stupid post - you have no idea what went on - I do as I was part of the crew on that yacht!

FYI info the skipper is experienced

We lost the steering just off the berth, a bolt dropped out of the gear and jammed the steering to port so while he had a bow thruster to swing the front we had no control over the stern. The skipper therefore put the engine in neutral as any forward or reverse drive would compound the problem.

Using the thruster we got her almost parallel with the pontoon where someone else off another boat (who has seen the problem) was waiting. He took a stern line while I was on the other side ready to fend off in necessary (it wasn't). My SWMBO was able to step on to the pontoon (note step not jump she never jumps) with a bow line. Everything is under control.

A member of the marina staff comes running up grabs the bow line from SWMBO and speaks loudly to the Skipper "PUT HER IN NEUTRAL" about 3 times one after the other getting louder each time. He also tells the other sailor who was on the pontoon to GO AWAY. He then compounds the problem by call our skipper "Sonny" when he is told (more than once) we are in neutral.

At this point to be honest our skipper had had enough of it and told him that if he thought he could do better why didn't he get on board and park the vessel. (We went up to the office later to talk to the member of staff and while he has a Mobo he and has crewed on a yacht he has never helmed a yacht in his life).

I removed myself by going down to clear a DSC alarm (always happens to compound the stress or I would have had words as well. SWMBO and the other sailor went for a walk to the hammerhead for similar reasons.

Not MDL's customer service at its best but it would never have been mentioned again (these things happen at sea and nobody died), we didn't touch any of the boats moored by us or scrape against the pontoon which is give a knot and a half of tide shows that our skipper had things under control, apart from you post about stupid yotties.

FYI I started sailing 40+ years ago owned racing dinghys and yachts, I have also owned two Fairlines and one Sealine and gone back to the rag and stick world so I have seen many cock ups by both type of boat over the years and in this case there was no issue until the masrina staff tried to "take control".
 
Was waiting for you to pop up,

we saw what we saw, and heard what we heard, we don't doubt your experience, all the more reason why my family should not have to listen to that aggression, its better suited to a building site, in fact, better still not suited to anywhere at all thanks. I felt for the Marina chap and feel very happy to have defended him.
 
Dear Paul

You obviously read my post with the same attention to detail as your witnessing of the incident.

1) I clearly stated that I was on the yacht as crew, not as helmsman or skipper so your pop at me "popping up" is unfair to say the least, I was not involved in the altercation or even said a word at the time. My advantage over you is that I was there for the whole incident, including before the time that the marina staff member arrived so I have a good idea of the context of what happened. As far as the altercation is concerned I was standing about one metre away from both participants so I am pretty clear about what happened and who said what and when.

2) Loosing steering in a tidal flow marina is a very stressful situation, however we had the situation under control before the member of staff arrived with both a bow and astern line across to people on the pontoon. Neither side comes out of this well IMHO, but if the staff had stopped for a few seconds to assess the situation before giving repeated instructions which were not relevant (as the boat was already in neutral and had been for a couple of minutes and had lines across to the pontoon) the whole problem would never have arisen. It maybe that Mercury marina is full of numpties I haven't been in there for about 4 years before last Saturday and the staff maybe used to people who don't know how to control their boats but I couldn't comment.

3) FYI the skipper did go up to the office later and as I understand it both parties agreed that they hadn't handled the situation well.

4) The reason I called your post stupid is that all you have done is to alert the MDL management of the issue which can't reflect well on the staff. After the discussion in point 3 it was water under the bridge and everyone had moved on but there is nothing like a good combative post with half a story. In fact I might even start to feel sorry for Webcraft!
 
We were parked up stern too later that evening. The crew of the yacht seemed to be quite calm and chilled by that point.

As always there are 2 sides to every story.

I wasn't there when the incident happened so cant comment, what I will say is Scott is a Very Calm Placid guy, he does not in my experience treat skippers who are in trouble in a patronising or condescending way.

That same day we were towed into Mercury by Sea Start, Scott and another member of staff helped us berth and tie up without incident.

As said 2 sides, glad no one was hurt :)
 
paul salliss said:
Witnessed a blue hulled yacht trying to moor downstream on the ebb today into C36, he got it all wrong and got pinned on the corner, that is not a criticism we have all cocked up at some point including me, however the marina manager spotted from 300 yards away what was going on and runs to the scene to assist , the yacht skipper then swears for a full ten minutes at the Marina manger and blames him!!!, I thought blows would be thrown and a couple of us moved towards the Marina manger to provide back up, only been boating 5 years, worst behaviour I have ever seen, as I type this the dick head is still on the berth
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Paul Salliss is slightly inaccurate in his post (I guess he felt it should be embellished little for theatrical effect?)

Now shall we get some facts out there rather than the puerile conjecture from 'yachtsmen' with lots to say, with little or no knowledge of the situation.

The facts are

He wasn't the Marina Manager - thats Colin Jefferies.

No-one blamed the Mercury guy for the mechanical problems or berthing of our boat.

I swore at the guy once and had raised voices (as he did) for less than 2 minutes, until my wife persuaded him to walk away as he was not making the situation better by being there.

Our steering had jammed hard to port as we were manoeuvring into our allocated visitor berth. At no time were we "pinned' anywhere and had a stern line in the hand of someone on the pontoon and were guiding the bow with the thruster. We rapidly got a person off the boat to handle a bow line. At this point all was under control but clearly a stressful situation!
We could not engage forward or reverse as due to the helm jammed hard to port, this clearly had an adverse affect of berthing the boat.

Enter left, the 'helpful' Mercury chap. His first line of attack was to tell the guy helping with the stern line to leave it alone as he was now 'in charge', he then told to me put my vessel in neutral. I told him the engine was already in neutral because the boat steering was locked hard to port. Again he told me to put the vessel in neutral. Clearly he had no idea that there was any tide in his marina and had wrongly assumed that we were incompetent sailors, that we had misjudged the tide and wind and had not heard that we had a serious close quarter manoeuvring problem. At this point he told our bow line person (who just so happens to be a senior figure in the commercial yachting industry), "that he was not paid enough to do this sort of thing"
Again the guy told me to put my vessel in neutral at which point I invited anyone in the vicinity to come aboard and handle my boat as clearly I had no idea what I was doing. At this point the Mercury guy called me 'Sonny' and then he got both barrels.

I was furious that in a stressful situation of a mechanical failure at close quarters, someone who has never helmed a yacht (by his own admission), was telling me how to handle my boat (with a mechanical failure) whilst not understanding the mechanical problem that had caused our situation. I did swear at him for calling me "sonny" - what a crime, however looking at some of the faceless spineless trolls on this forum, I can't see that I have said anything worse than what you lot are saying.

As for comments my wife or indeed the other people on my boat said, these are inflammatory spurious remarks and one should be careful of making things up for fear on legal consequence.

Lets hope you all get a life and make sure you get your facts right in future before spouting forth unfounded drivel.

I won't be responding to any 'helpful' posts but lets hope you all can now take a balanced view.
 
This is my last post on the subject but I don't believe I have abused anyone its just YBW doesn't have a irony emoticon. So Firefly if you want to pour petrol on the flames do it on your own.
 
Scaramoosh said:
Dear Paul

What a stupid post - you have no idea what went on - I do as I was part of the crew on that yacht!

FYI info the skipper is experienced

We lost the steering just off the berth, a bolt dropped out of the gear and jammed the steering to port so while he had a bow thruster to swing the front we had no control over the stern. The skipper therefore put the engine in neutral as any forward or reverse drive would compound the problem.

Using the thruster we got her almost parallel with the pontoon where someone else off another boat (who has seen the problem) was waiting. He took a stern line while I was on the other side ready to fend off in necessary (it wasn't). My SWMBO was able to step on to the pontoon (note step not jump she never jumps) with a bow line. Everything is under control.

A member of the marina staff comes running up grabs the bow line from SWMBO and speaks loudly to the Skipper "PUT HER IN NEUTRAL" about 3 times one after the other getting louder each time. He also tells the other sailor who was on the pontoon to GO AWAY. He then compounds the problem by call our skipper "Sonny" when he is told (more than once) we are in neutral.

At this point to be honest our skipper had had enough of it and told him that if he thought he could do better why didn't he get on board and park the vessel. (We went up to the office later to talk to the member of staff and while he has a Mobo he and has crewed on a yacht he has never helmed a yacht in his life).

I removed myself by going down to clear a DSC alarm (always happens to compound the stress or I would have had words as well. SWMBO and the other sailor went for a walk to the hammerhead for similar reasons.

Not MDL's customer service at its best but it would never have been mentioned again (these things happen at sea and nobody died), we didn't touch any of the boats moored by us or scrape against the pontoon which is give a knot and a half of tide shows that our skipper had things under control, apart from you post about stupid yotties.

FYI I started sailing 40+ years ago owned racing dinghys and yachts, I have also owned two Fairlines and one Sealine and gone back to the rag and stick world so I have seen many cock ups by both type of boat over the years and in this case there was no issue until the masrina staff tried to "take control".
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If you read my post you will see that I did know what went on including the fact that your steering failed.

The lady I assumed was the skippers wife, in trying to excuse his behaviour (impossible) partially blamed you and your know it all attitude for winding the skipper up. That's the only bit I didn't see I only have her word for that.

Whether the dockies advice was good or bad is irrelevant. Your skipper was a disgrace. I will still write in support of banning him if MDL ask. They have my number.

Ps I thought his advice was good. The whole thing was witnessed by at least 2 instuctors, me being one of them.
 
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1. The prevailing rule is, that words used in retort, although more violent and disrespectful than those first used, will not satisfy,—words being no satisfaction for words.
2. When words are used, and a fender given in return, the insult is avenged; and if redress be sought, it must be from the person receiving the fender.
3. When fenders are given in the first instance and not returned, and the person first striking, be badly fendered or otherwise, the party first struck is to make the demand, for fenders do not satisfy contact with the pontoon or other vessels.
4. Insults at a yacht club bar, when the company are over-excited, must be answered for; and if the party insulting have no recollection of the insult, it is his duty to say so by email, and negate the insult. For instance, if the man say: "you are a liar and no gentleman," he must, in addition to the plea of the want of recollection, say: "I believe the party insulted to be a man of the strictest veracity and a gentleman."
5. Steering gear failures are not a full excuse for insult, but it will greatly palliate. If it was a full excuse, it might be well counterfeited to wound feelings, or destroy character.
6. In all cases of berthing errors, the seconds must use a sound discretion under the above general rules.
7. Can every insult be compromised? is a mooted and vexed question. On this subject, no rules can be given that will be satisfactory. The old opinion, that a blow must require a dent in fibreglass, is not of force. Blows may be compromised in many cases. What those are, much depend on the seconds.
###

"The code of honour".
John Lyde Wilson.

.
 
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poppydog said:
Were you one of the instructors who watched, say you understood the situation but couldn't be bothered to help?
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I walked over to help and walked away again. There was nothing I could add.
I walked over again to offer consolation to the dockie after he had been abused by a disgusting tirade.

Again, read what I said. If the skipper had shouted "steering failure, help" he would have been dragged into the berth.
As it was it was impossible to tell that it had failed at that point, there was just screaming going on. There's nothing I could see I could add.
 
abused by a disgusting tirade
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Scaramoosh and poppydog have come on here attempting to justify themselves but to me that says more than anything. No experienced and competent yachtsman would sink to their level at a time of stress in terms of shouting and swearing at innocent party, especially when that innocent party had come to help. Not only that but this was hardly a life or death situation just a berthing cock up and we've all been there and got the t shirt on that one, in the vast majority of cases without it resulting in a foul mouthed tirade. I would have been a lot more impressed if they'd have joined this thread to admit that they had simply lost it and apologise for their behaviour. Perhaps their attitude goes some way to explaining how they got into that situation in the first place
 
Steering away (excuse the pun) from the argument of who said and did what for a moment, is it just me that is a bit alarmed that steering failure seems to be a not uncommon phenomenon, on yachts particularly?

I'm sure I've heard of several incidents involving steering gear failure over the years.

Yet how many times have you heard of the steering failing on cars, trucks or buses? I can't think of any, although vehicle accident causes aren't widely published (after all they can only be caused by excessive speed, right?:rolleyes:)

I'm just rather surprised that safety critical functions like steering can fail because a bolt can drop out.
Surely they should be designed to be fail safe, i.e. the nut can drop out but the bolt stays in?
It's not as if the fundamental steering principle has changed much over the years, manufacturers should be able to get it right by now.

Just my twopenneth on boat design and engineering, would be interested to hear what others have to say
 
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