Disappearing Beaufort Scale!

[Burnham Bob]

I may be old fashioned but I do prefer the beaufort scale. it gives an instant comparison between say a three and a five. as a previous poster said, the beaufort scale also allows for a range within a number of knots so you are working with a range not a hard and fast number of knots. I find it easy to change knots into beaufort, but for sailing forecasts find the beaufort scale easier for planning purposes.

 

[Litotes]

I may be old fashioned but I do prefer the beaufort scale. it gives an instant comparison between say a three and a five. as a previous poster said, the beaufort scale also allows for a range within a number of knots so you are working with a range not a hard and fast number of knots. I find it easy to change knots into beaufort, but for sailing forecasts find the beaufort scale easier for planning purposes.

I agree with all of this.

What a pity that the impulse to sneer at preferences other than one's own is not confined to Scuttlebutt.

 

[WilliamUK]

These days most weather information is a data stream to a computer or other device and even with data volume considerations TAF or a METAR type format is so much more efficient.

Most?
Perhaps on swanky, big boats with all sorts of electric gadgetry... but spare a though for the simple sailors who don't want to use (or can't afford, or don't have power for) fancy data streams.
Your average dingy cruiser (and probably the average proper boat cruiser) doesn't have a weather station. I'd guess most actually use a wind-up radio rather than something fancy.

All that said, this relative newcomer to sailing is keen on bft. I'd have a much harder time remembering forecasts in kts or (heaven forbid) m/s... and with a propensity for switching numbers around in my head, NE 4 gusting 6 rising to 5 gusting 7 then steady 6 from the E is a LOT easier to keep in the right order than a whole string of kts or m/s or whatever.

It's still a useful system.

Qualitative rather than quantitative, but that's not such a bad thing, especially considering the Met Office don't appear to use actuals to improve their forecasting ability.

 

[WilliamUK]

And more to the point... since we all know how wrong the forecasters can be, why do we even WANT such a precise system as forecasts in kts?
Easier and safer to use bft and assume an error of +/-1 or 2 than take a kts forecast as given or considering +/- 2 to 7 (or 4 to 13) depending on the wind forecast.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

I agree with all of this.

What a pity that the impulse to sneer at preferences other than one's own is not confined to Scuttlebutt.

+1. I'm quite happy with the old, familiar Beaufort. It gives me an instant description of what I need to know and is directly related to sea state.


Edit; It means something to SWMBO too!
4=OK
5=Do we have to?
6=No
7=Over my dead body.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

?

Am I secretly operating in the past?

I know what a force 4 is, or a force 7. I'd have to think quite hard about what those are in knots, and have no idea at all about metres per second.

Pete

+1

Perhaps its time is passing; hope not. As system for measuring wind speed based on wave descriptions in open water, it is remarkably robust. In not so open water, up to about a Force 5, the wave descriptions, not the heights are also remarkably accurate.

If Beaufort numbers were dropped I guess it wouldn't be that hard to understand wind strength from an actual velocity.

 

[MudShipper]

Weather forcast

Has anyone checked their seaweed this weekend?

Mine was confidently telling me it's raining when I left the boat.
The boat opposite must have thought it was dead calm, 'cause his wind instrument is seized up. probably ran out of numbers in m/s.

 

[CelebrityScandel]

...as a previous poster said, the beaufort scale also allows for a range within a number of knots so you are working with a range not a hard and fast number of knots...

International experience is that the forecasters assume that seamen are competent enough to know (and they should know, but apparantly some on here do not ) that the forecast assumes for a range of speeds about the forecast one, not "a hard and fast number of knots" as you claim. If there is sufficient variability about the forecast whether temporal or geographic within the forecast area then they will say so.

Wind warnings will typically be given as "gale", "storm", etc

This is all natural stuff for those that get out of their own backyards to anywhere else in the world and those that do so will soon find that their knowledge of Beaufort is redundant.

Some seem to be worrying about knots and m/sec. It is actually very easy as if the forecast is in m/s and one prefers knots then just double the m/s which gives a very close approximation to knots e.g. 15m/s becomes 30 knots. Going the other way just halve knots to get m/s if that is ones preference. If that is too hard then one should not be skippering or navigating a boat.

 

[Litotes]

This is all natural stuff for those that get out of their own backyards to anywhere else in the world and those that do so will soon find that their knowledge of Beaufort is redundant.

You really can't resist, can you?

Are Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, Brittany, Biscay, Spain and the west of Ireland far enough out of the backyard for you? I have been on the water long enough to know that the Beaufort scale has rarely or never been used in many of these places.

The need to denigrate those who hold different opinions from your own says a lot about you and very little about the topic.

 

[Conachair]

+1

Perhaps its time is passing; hope not. As system for measuring wind speed based on wave descriptions in open water, it is remarkably robust. In not so open water, up to about a Force 5, the wave descriptions, not the heights are also remarkably accurate.

If Beaufort numbers were dropped I guess it wouldn't be that hard to understand wind strength from an actual velocity.

After spending time listening to both, I think I flip between the 2 easily. From memory it was nearly all wind speed in Kts away from the UK.

Anyway, as in Pirates of the Caribbean, "Thems not so much rules, more guidelines" Almost always there would be access to a synoptic to see what was going on or coming in.

Doubt if the shipping forecast will be changing anytime soon.

 

[Zagato]

The link to the Inshore Waters Forecast ( called "Sailing forecast") in the drop down list in the top RH corner of the home page gives the windspeeds in Beaufort scale numbers.

The reports from Chimet etc., from the same drop down list, give current windspeeds in knots and Beaufort force .

The general Met. Office forecast pages, also accessible from the drop down lists can be customised to give windspeeds in mph, km per hr or knots.

From the links further down the page the BBC weather forecasts can be customised to show wind speed in mph or km/h and
the XC weather pages can be customised to show knots, mph, km/h, mps or Beaufort forces.

Thanks

 

[Greenwichman]

Beaufort's washed up

I can't imagine a shipping forecast or inshore waters forecast using knots, mph, kph or any other non-beaufort system - it would have to take far longer to broadcast.
Also, the beaufort scale is totally international, used worldwide and avoids any confusion over which units are in use in johnie foreigners' forecasts.

Not quite .... out here in NZ Beaufort is already unknown; somehow us foreigners have learned to cope .....

 

[alahol2]

It means something to SWMBO too!
4=OK
5=Do we have to?
6=No
7=Over my dead body.

They must teach this at SWMBO school...

 

[Tidewaiter2]

They must teach this at SWMBO school...

+1 here too, funny that

 

[fishermantwo]

The Beaufort scale was interesting but long gone in Australia.

 

[CelebrityScandel]

You really can't resist, can you?

Are Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, Brittany, Biscay, Spain and the west of Ireland far enough out of the backyard for you? I have been on the water long enough to know that the Beaufort scale has rarely or never been used in many of these places.

The need to denigrate those who hold different opinions from your own says a lot about you and very little about the topic.

Well, I am sorry that you seem to be of a sensitivity that you find the reference to getting out of ones own "backyard" offensive but thank you for going on to confirm that those (meaning those in the UK where Beaufort has remained in use) that do get further than their own backyard will indeed find Beaufort redundant.

That agreement with me seems to infer that what I said did indeed contribute to the topic as few (if anyone) apart from myself and then yourself in response to me had pointed out that Beaufort is long gone in most of the rest of the world.

I see a few others have now confirmed that Beaufort is long gone in their backyards too and I can add that it has also long gone in my own backyard which is another backyard altogether. It has also long gone in most other backyards too whether those happen to be around the Atlantic, Indian and Pacific Oceans and the seas that neighbour them, most of which we have frequented.

 

[Litotes]

I see a few others have now confirmed that Beaufort is long gone

I think you miss my point. The Beaufort Scale isn't "long gone". Across most of the world it was never used in the first place. One of the place it was used, however, was the USA. And it still is. In other places, such as Australia, the numbers from the scale may not still be in routine use, but many of the terms originally used by Beaufort to describe wind and wave conditions most certainly are.

I am not in the least offended by your opinion, although I don't think it is very well founded. Unlike you, it seems, I'm content that opinions differ. I'm not impressed by people who seem unable to express their opinion without adding a sneer at others who see things differently.

I've been sailing a long time, both professionally and for leisure and I never seem to meet people who behave like this in face to face conversation. So I can't help wondering why so many feel the need to do so when they are facing a screen rather than a person. Happily, the sailing world I inhabit is a world away from the sailing world as it sometimes appears on these forums.

 

[Fire99]

I'm a 'relatively' young Sailor and it's Beaufort every time for me. It's a good reference point for a range of conditions..

Much in the same way I understand 5' 10" and not 178cm and I drive at 70mph, not 113kmh

 

[franksingleton]

For forecast purposes it is up to the users how winds are given in forecasts. In the UK, users are represented of professional and leisure users sit on the Working Group for UK Safety of Navigation. This group advises the MCA. Of course, time constraints in BBC forecasts and those by HMCG as well as length of NAVTEX broadcasts have to be considered.

Many countries will continue to give winds in Beaufort for reasons of brevity clarity over the radio and, most importantly, realism. Some countries eg the YSA and Croatia use knots, others eg Sweden uses metres/second. Using, say, knots can lead to a false impression of precision and some nonsense. Sailing in Croatia for several months we often heard “5 to 15 becoming 6 to 16.”

There is a good case for reported winds to be given in knots (or whatever0 but there needs to be a common standard. Again, for realism reasons the international meteorological definition of wind for operational (synoptic) reporting is an average over 10 minutes. I assume that all the “amateur” reports such as Chimet (see http://weather.mailasail.com/Franks-Weather/Unofficial-Weather-Actuals ) conform to that same standard. Similarly, a gust is defined as lasting 3 (I think) seconds.