Disadvantages of short keel ?

J

Jobs a good un

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Hi All

Been looking at a Bavaria 41 holiday with a 3 foot 6 inch keel , can anyone give me the lowdown on short keels with regard to sailing ability ,general performance etc

Regards

Mark
 
I can't comment on your individual boat, but in general a yacht with a deeper keel will make less leeway and point a little higher to windward. They can be more stable as well with less ballast (as its lower down) so you make weight savings as well.
Inevitebly a short keel is a compromise, the convenience of getting into shallow areas over some sailing ability.

3'6'' seems very short for a 41 footer. My 24' Sadler draws 4'8''!
 
I have the shallow fin version of the Sadler34, drawing 1.4 metres. I sometimes think that our leeway is rather more than I would like when in a seaway but when we are in company I find that nobody outpoints us to any great extent.
 
As Ceirwan says.

In prolonged strong winds or gales a drift is set up of the sea surface; ' surface drift ', to be allowed for in dead reckoning navigation.

This drift layer is reckoned as one metre deep, though obviously a rough guide rule of thumb.

Deeper keels than 1 metre do work better in these conditions.

However with any fin or fixed keel I'd make very sure the boat could get through the French canals, a lovely place to be and an important option compared to Biscay.

I'd happily trade off a little performance to windward to ensure this ability.

NB twin keelers are not so great on the canals as the shoreside keel may well foul on the submerged bankside; a lift keeler may be the answer depending on the boat size and budget you are looking for.
 
Seajet said:
Deeper keels than 1 metre do work better in these conditions.

However with any fin or fixed keel I'd make very sure the boat could get through the French canals, a lovely place to be and an important option compared to Biscay.

I.
Click to expand...

I persuaded my wife that we could go through the canals to the med where it would be warm & calm( well you have to romance a bit)
She got hooked on the idea but only if we got a new boat so we did not get the usual problems that could occur with old boats ( look this is a woman's view)
So we - well she actually- arranged loads of viewings & finally a test sail
Boat was duly delivered & then I let slip that the one we had chosen was the deep keel version ( 1.800 metres) & it would not go through
That revelation nearly led to a divorce
Only option was to go round the outside
Things went from bad to worse when i spent more on charts & pilots than the extra cost of the shallow keel
Still off we set to go "outside"
Weather was b awful & she spent the first month sleeping in her thermals
Just north of La Rochelle she got on a plane & b..gg..d off home saying " I hate you & I hate your B boat""
that is where I learned to sail single handed -- & you know what?? it is miles better

So if you want to do the canals -- & keep the wife-- it is a shallow keel every time. But there again , if you like single handed sailing -a deep fin performs miles better
 
Exactly, there are still lift keel options; the Americans are keen on lift keelers too so there's a chance there.

I'm not pushing lift keels, it's just an option; but at that size it would be a pretty shallow fixed keel, proportionately, to get through the canals - if the owner or a future buyer wanted.
 
Daydream believer said:
I persuaded my wife that we could go through the canals to the med where it would be warm & calm( well you have to romance a bit)
She got hooked on the idea but only if we got a new boat so we did not get the usual problems that could occur with old boats ( look this is a woman's view)
So we - well she actually- arranged loads of viewings & finally a test sail
Boat was duly delivered & then I let slip that the one we had chosen was the deep keel version ( 1.800 metres) & it would not go through
That revelation nearly led to a divorce
Only option was to go round the outside
Things went from bad to worse when i spent more on charts & pilots than the extra cost of the shallow keel
Still off we set to go "outside"
Weather was b awful & she spent the first month sleeping in her thermals
Just north of La Rochelle she got on a plane & b..gg..d off home saying " I hate you & I hate your B boat""
that is where I learned to sail single handed -- & you know what?? it is miles better

So if you want to do the canals -- & keep the wife-- it is a shallow keel every time. But there again , if you like single handed sailing -a deep fin performs miles better
Click to expand...

One could always singlehand through the canals too, I would; having worked on the Burgundy canals & rivers for a season I'm convinced this is a place and method of getting to & from the Med' I'd make strides to go for, simply lovely.

I can see big waves any time I want at Portland !
 
I always thought that my shallow fin Sadler 32 would be disadvantaged against the deep fin versions (4'6" draft rather than 5'6"). However our result on a RTI race a couple of years ago was excellent, 2nd out of 8 or 9, and well placed against all types of cruisers up to 36', despite a F6 beat and having to stick with 2 reefs in the main in the run because a seam had split.

I did have my hot shot Laser sailor son helming, and a few of his mates as crew .... But clearly the shallow fin wasn't a problem.

I suspect that it helps to sail the boat more upright, is reefed and/ or bodies on the weather rail when appropriate.

An advantage of a short fin not mentioned so far is more stable drying out alongside, the base of the keel is longer.
 
Have to say I don't fancy your chances to windward much.

A friend had a ferro 35' with a shortened keel but I think she drew more than that.

Have a look at American designs, they like their lift keelers, a format which would seem the answer here.

There was the Trapper 700 but she is very rare and I've no idea how good.

The Barracuda if one has a yen for speed.

I might have said Ovni, lovely but I've just seen a reminder of their prices, £ 1/4 mil secondhand !

If you do look at any lift keeler, the golden rule is an inspection by you and / or the surveyor with hull hoisted, keel down.
 
Has the Bav got a "wing" or "bulb" keel. Could explain why it's shallow draught. Don't like these for anchoring---they seem to be very prone to getting chain wraps round the keel, espaecially here on the river when we get wind against current.
No personal experience, except of helping people sort out the results.
 
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