'Dipping' of ensign

[oldbilbo]

It was 'dinned' into me that, if one was important enough to have a yacht, one should 'dip' one's national ensign on encountering a warship... as a courtesy.

That could get a bit frantic when sailing in the vicinity of Plymouth, as there is expectation of the 'salute' being returned by the warship.

What guidance can the crusty old Port hands offer?

 

[blackfish]

Me too. When I first started sailing nearly 40 years ago now, the skipper of the boat I crewed on (out of Portsmouth) always used to dip the ensign to acknowledge a man o' war. Mainly for our general delectation in witnessing the poor rating who was dispatched to acknowledge the 'salute'. They were usually the modern equivalent of powder monkeys.

 

[Topcat47]

Don't bother. Unless you have an ensign flying from your backstay or a really FO huge flagstaff, the chances of anyone on board noticing is minimal. Supposedly, the etiquette requires you to dip and wait until the warship has responded, then return your ensign to full height after it has done so.

The last time I dipped was to a Nato flotilla in the late 80's. Four of the five ships dipped but the last one in the line was Franch. The yeoman popped his head out and flipped me the finger. I probably deserved it.

 

[blackfish]

Don't bother. Unless you have an ensign flying from your backstay or a really FO huge flagstaff, the chances of anyone on board noticing is minimal. Supposedly, the etiquette requires you to dip and wait until the warship has responded, then return your ensign to full height after it has done so.

The last time I dipped was to a Nato flotilla in the late 80's. Four of the five ships dipped but the last one in the line was Franch. The yeoman popped his head out and flipped me the finger. I probably deserved it.

I shipped, d'ye see, in a Revenue sloop,
And, off Cape Finistere,
A merchantman we see,
A Frenchman, going free,
So we made for the bold Mounseer,
D'ye see?
We made for the bold Mounseer.

But she proved to be a Frigate – and she up with her ports,
And fires with a thirty-two!
It come uncommon near,
But we answered with a cheer,
Which paralysed the Parley-voo,
D'ye see?
Which paralysed the Parley-voo!

Then our Captain he up and he says, says he,
"That chap we need not fear,–
We can take her, if we like,
She is sartin for to strike,
For she's only a darned Mounseer,
D'ye see?
She's only a darned Mounseer!"

"But to fight a French fal-lal – it's like hittin' of a gal!
It's a lubberly thing for to do;
For we, with all our faults,
Why, we're sturdy British salts,
While she's only a Parley-voo,
D'ye see?
While she's only a poor Parley-voo!"

So we up with our helm, and we scuds before the breeze
As we gives a compassionating cheer;
Froggee answers with a shout
As he sees us go about,
Which was grateful of the poor Mounseer,
D'ye see?
Which was grateful of the poor Mounseer!

And I'll wager in their joy they kissed each other's cheek
(Which is what them furriners do),
And they blessed their lucky stars
We were hardy British tars
Who had pity on a poor Parley-voo,
D'ye see?
Who had pity on a poor Parley-voo!

(Sorry - couldn't resist.)

 

[maby]

Interesting - we'll be sailing into Portsmouth in a few days - may try it to see if anyone responds. We do fly the ensign from the backstay, but quite low and it is not particularly visible

 

[Sandyman]

Interesting - we'll be sailing into Portsmouth in a few days - may try it to see if anyone responds. We do fly the ensign from the backstay, but quite low and it is not particularly visible

Unlikely you will see anyone to respond. Try the Goport Ferry

 

[john_morris_uk]

Warships do respond if they are near enough etc. Its a bit like saluting a person, across the parade ground doesn't count as its out of range, across the road does. If they are in the middle of doing some demanding pilotage they might 'ignore' you.

They often respond because CO is fearful that it will be some retired Admiral on his private yacht who if the salute isn't acknowledged, will immediately be in contact with First Sealord about standards in the fleet...

If your ensign is on a pole, remove the pole and dip it down towards the water. Wait until the warship dips and raises and then raise yours and replace. Its conventional to wave cheerfully at the poor OOW on the bridge who has noticed and ordered the rating to go and acknowledge.

 

[West Coast]

When Britannia was still in commission, and the royal family would take their annual scottish island cruise, we would often see them complete with a destroyer escort. We would always reach behind us and dip our ensign, then watch with binoculars as a poor rating emerged from the wheelhouse, run flat out to the stern to dip theirs in turn. Good sport.

 

[Woodlouse]

I've seen plenty a junior officer dispatched to dip the ensign rather than just ratings and it does seem to catch them by surprise but if the ship is close enough to definitely have a pair of eyes on the bridge watching you then they will respond. We met a Type 23 in the Kiel canal a few years back and got to hear the tannoy blast for someone to dip the ensign along with a dapper chap in a white peaked cap sprinting across the helideck.

 

[Sandyman]

It was often a job reserved for the ''Snotties''

 

[Deleted member 36384]

There was a response to this question by some senior RN bod in one of the yacht magazines a few years ago. Basically he said that the crew on watch are supposed to be watching and therefore should notice these things and report it to the who is in charge on the bridge. The expectation is that the RN vessel is expected to respond, so it's not quite a quaint custom, if they notice a dip, they might notice an RPG.

 

[alant]

There was a response to this question by some senior RN bod in one of the yacht magazines a few years ago. Basically he said that the crew on watch are supposed to be watching and therefore should notice these things and report it to the who is in charge on the bridge. The expectation is that the RN vessel is expected to respond, so it's not quite a quaint custom, if they notice a dip, they might notice an RPG.

Rarely see any warships wearing an ensign, they seem to prefer incognito.

 

[blackfish]

Rarely see any warships wearing an ensign, they seem to prefer incognito.

RN ships wear a great big one on the stern (and a jack on the bow) when in harbour and usually a smaller white ensign up the main trunk when 'on patrol'.

 

[john_morris_uk]

RN ships wear a great big one on the stern (and a jack on the bow) when in harbour and usually a smaller white ensign up the main trunk when 'on patrol'.

Exactly so.

Ensign is moved to the mainmast as soon as the ship is out of harbour stations. (If the ensign was on the back end, it would get in the way of the helicopter when it embarks...)

 

[oldbilbo]

They often respond because CO is fearful that it will be some retired Admiral on his private yacht who if the salute isn't acknowledged, will immediately be in contact with First Sealord about standards in the fleet...

Aye. There's a fair few of them sailing around Plymouth Sound, some with white ensigns of their own....

But the practice has other uses. Long time ago and far away, two of us on a trimaran halfway down the Irish Sea suffered a rigging failure and 'mast down'. We worked through the night to strip off the sails and gear, and hauled it back on. We'd just finished, in the grey pre-dawn, and I was making tea when startled by a scream of alarm from my mate in the cockpit. Crossing just astern of us was a huge black shape towering above us. This huge surfaced sub circled right round us, several times, and we realised they were probably trying to work out if we had injuries and needed assistance. Of course, we had no VHF.

I know most of the recognised signals for 'distress' - including the burning barrel of tar - but not one for "We're all right, but thanks for asking...."

Until I remembered the ensign, on its little staff on the stern. So, when next HMS Torbay,- for that's what she turned out to be,

( http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/our-organisation/the-fighting-arms/submarine-service/fleet-submarines/trafalgar-class/hms-torbay )

passed round our stern - little white caps visible now up on the sail - I slowly and formally 'dipped the ensign'. In reply, she wound up her turbines and thrashed away south at very high speed....

 

[Blue Sunray]

I've seen plenty a junior officer dispatched to dip the ensign rather than just ratings and it does seem to catch them by surprise but if the ship is close enough to definitely have a pair of eyes on the bridge watching you then they will respond. We met a Type 23 in the Kiel canal a few years back and got to hear the tannoy blast for someone to dip the ensign along with a dapper chap in a white peaked cap sprinting across the helideck.

My father did the job as a young Royal Marine in the days of ship's detachments. He always insisted on dipping to the RN in later years.

 

[alant]

RN ships wear a great big one on the stern (and a jack on the bow) when in harbour and usually a smaller white ensign up the main trunk when 'on patrol'.

"usually".

 

[Seajet]

A chum told me of dipping his ensign to the USS Nimitz; after a bit of a pause a hatch on the island bridge clanged open and some poor sod could be seen ziz-zagging down all the ladders then running all the way to the back to dip their ensign !

I've tried it to British warships and been cooly ignored...

 

[john_morris_uk]

A chum told me of dipping his ensign to the USS Nimitz; after a bit of a pause a hatch on the island bridge clanged open and some poor sod could be seen ziz-zagging down all the ladders then running all the way to the back to dip their ensign !

I've tried it to British warships and been cooly ignored...

The Anderson effect perhaps?

 

[blackfish]

A chum told me of dipping his ensign to the USS Nimitz; after a bit of a pause a hatch on the island bridge clanged open and some poor sod could be seen ziz-zagging down all the ladders then running all the way to the back to dip their ensign !

I've tried it to British warships and been cooly ignored...

Saw the USS Nimitz at anchor just off Stokes Bay (too big to get into Portsmouth Harbour). We started counting all the aircraft on the flight deck and those we could see on a lower deck. We stopped when we realised they had more than the whole of the Fleet Air Arm. Then we were becalmed in her lee. Then they called Solent Coastguard for a radio check on Ch 16. It must be catching in the Solent.