Dinghy roller-genoa...how cheaply/simply could this be arranged, using DIY?

[DownWest]

Both the boat with the furler I mentioned and my similar sized gunter rigged boat have 'dinghy jacks'. When single handing in gusty conditions and trying to beach/ catch a buoy/come alongside, it is great to just let go the halyard and get on with other stuff. I have a downhaul on the jib as a throttle, otherwise it ballons up (hanked on)

 

[Greenheart]

Thanks DownWest, your arrangement sounds like what I have in mind. I'm surprised it's not a more common solution to avoid disarray in dinghies at launch/landing sites.

I'm happy for the majority who are certain they don't need such a thing, too!

 

[Romeo]

I have just parted company with a lug rigged cruising dinghy. I had twin fixed topping lifts to about two thirds of the way along the boom. You really could just let go the halyard and the sail was down and not in the way in less than half a second. I had rolling furling on the jib, so that too can dissappear in less than a second. Great for control in coming alongside or when swapping from sail to oar power. The furler was just a furler. If I wanted to reef the foresail it involved swapping to a storm jib (actually a mirror jib... everyone has a couple of them in their garage don't they). That process was made a lot easier by dropping a furled sausage, rather than a flapping jib.

 

[Kelpie]

I can see how a mainsail on sliders can come down under its own weight, making some form of lazyjacks useful, but in my experience at least a bolt-rope type sail (as used on most modern dinghies, including presumably Dan's) you have to haul the sail down manually so it's not a case of letting off the halyard and watching the sail drop by itself.

 

[Romeo]

I can see how a mainsail on sliders can come down under its own weight, making some form of lazyjacks useful, but in my experience at least a bolt-rope type sail (as used on most modern dinghies, including presumably Dan's) you have to haul the sail down manually so it's not a case of letting off the halyard and watching the sail drop by itself.

Indeed, it is one of the advantages of lug / gunter/ gaff rig on a cruising dinghy. Whether that is sufficient advantage to outweigh the loss of windward performance is a matter of taste/ preference/ judgement etc. It works for me, but might not for others.

 

[DownWest]

Indeed, it is one of the advantages of lug / gunter/ gaff rig on a cruising dinghy. Whether that is sufficient advantage to outweigh the loss of windward performance is a matter of taste/ preference/ judgement etc. It works for me, but might not for others.

Quite. My boat can outpoint most of the gaff/lug rigged boats because of it's efficient jib and foils. The ease of handling of the main outways (for me) any advantages of getting a touch closer to the wind. Plus, as I trail/sail, the spars are not much longer than the boat and I can set up in a few minutes as all rigging is left in place except the f/stay. Perhaps Dan can use plastic slugs in his mast groove?

 

[Greenheart]

Perhaps Dan can use plastic slugs in his mast groove?

Thanks for these thoughts; although I think that'd be going a step further than necessary, even for me. I can see that few (if any) serious racing dinghies use any furling gear or weight & windage-increasing tackles, simply to reduce inconvenience at journeys' starts and ends...

...and while the boltrope in the mainsail's luff will prevent one-handed sail-dropping, its proven effectiveness, securing the sail to the mast, will stop me overcomplicating it.

The "dinghy-jacks" idea is only a means by which I hope to keep the cockpit clear and the sail tamed, during launches and landings, when I'm used to the boat continuing to drive hard until the moment the flogging sail is dropped, after which the cockpit is smothered by sailcloth, and the long boom (which won't fit on the floor) is flopping overboard or taking up space I'd like to have for other things, like delicate female crew.

Even if the sail requires laborious lowering at the gooseneck, lazyjacks would allow the boom to remain overhead, and the sail to be 'stowed' upon the boom...which sounds effortless compared with past experiences. Although I'll have to learn to flake the wired luff and loosely bungee the sail. Which may make amusing viewing...

...but for rowing, mooring, anchoring and restricted landing sites, what better or tidier solutions exist for taking the flap out of a big dinghy's mainsail? None I can think of.

 

[Lakesailor]

I made lazy jacks for two 18ft cruisers (with similar sized mains to an Osprey) and ended up taking them off. They offered little advantage over just flaking the sail. The way to make them useful is to have a stackpack bag on the boom.
But that is way OTT for a dinghy.

 

[Greenheart]

The way to make them useful is to have a stackpack bag on the boom. But that is way OTT for a dinghy.

Depends entirely on how the dinghy is used, doesn't it? I reckon your 18' cruisers must have had topping lifts to keep the boom out of the way? That's half the battle...

...and having done so, why not free-up the cockpit completely, by making the sail easily stowable (however temporarily) on the raised boom?

Maybe a stackpack bag is the answer - just a couple of 9ft x 9" strips of cloth under the boom inside the lazyjacks, with velcro seams at the top edge to enclose the sail.

In the course of a weekend's relaxed coastal sailing, landing, launching, rowing and tying up afloat, having somewhere discrete to keep the main and boom would help.

I'm guessing your 18ft cruisers had 'slugs' in the mast-track which held the luff, raised or lowered? Easier than flaking a sail like mine, with its untamed bolt-rope luff.

Hence I thought lazyjacks, to help keep order.

Serious question, Lakey: if you can imagine sailing an Osprey in much the same way you used your mini-cruisers, how would you avoid a cockpit full of sail and boom?

 

[oldbilbo]

Here's a tuppenceworth.... based on my dinghy-cruising in a Catapult a longish time ago.

The f/battened mainsail had tack and clew rings for a deep reef. Between them across the sail I had four eyelets let into the sail, with very simple reinforcing patches glued on. Aware that several cords dangling destroys the airflow over the sail - especially in light breeze - I didn't have those traditional 'danglies'. Instead I wove a length of shockcord from the reef clew-ring 'in-and-out' forward to the reef tack-ring, then back again - and the ends finished inside a plastic practice golfball ball at the leach. This was just tight enough to hold the shockcord horizontal, but not so firmly as to affect the shape of the sail.

On each 'segment' of shockcord I fitted a cheap small plastic hook. When reefing, the reef tack and clew were pulled down and secured as normal. The bundle of redundant sailcloth was simply gathered up by pulling the plastic hooks in turn down under the sail and then clipping them onto the shockcord on the other side. Result, a simple deep slab reef and the redundant sail gathered out of the way. Worked fine....

That boat had trapeze wires, and I fitted rectangular 'hiking out seats' clipped to the gunwales, which articulated 'out/in', and were secured to the trapeze wires each by a 'V' of rope. When launching/recovering and the mainsail needed to be controlled out of the way, I simply folded the hiking-out seats inboard - and the trapeze wires with their 'V' ropes acted as rudimentary lazy jacks holding the part-hoisted mainsail out of harm's way. One could then approach a pontoon/ramp or sail off under ( furling ) jib alone. Worked fine.....

 

[Lakesailor]

Serious question, Lakey: if you can imagine sailing an Osprey in much the same way you used your mini-cruisers, how would you avoid a cockpit full of sail and boom?

Can't see it works like that. My Heron and my clinker dinghy were very much sail-alone boats for me. A load of sail in the cockpit didn't bother me.

The boom in a cruiser will be a lot higher and sail flopping down is a pain in the arse. If you try to unhook the gooseneck and stow the boom and sail in the cabin you have to disconnect the kicking strap, mainsheet and topping lift. It all gets cumbersome.
I used to just flake the sail on the boom and use a couple of sail-ties for a "messy" stow until ready to hoist the sail again. If picking up my mooring I'd then be able to do a tidy stow and put the sailcoat on.
I did think about a stack pack, but never bothered.

One thing you are overlooking is that you will de-rigging at the end of your day's sail and that will include the lazyjack, which will be a lot of small line to stow. In addition you'll need to decide whether to disconnect it from the boom or the mast and set up a system to do that. Then, next time out you have to set up the LJs again.
Wa-a-ay too much faffing.

 

[Greenheart]

Sounds like a tidy solution, Bilbo, thanks for the ideas.

I expect I'll muddle through, eventually finding a combination of maximum benefit, minimum tangle. Whatever works best, I'll report back here.

 

[Lakesailor]

Quick flake of the main

 

[Greenheart]

Can't see it works like that. My Heron and my clinker dinghy were very much sail-alone boats for me. A load of sail in the cockpit didn't bother me.

One thing you are overlooking is that you will de-rigging at the end of your day's sail and that will include the lazyjack, which will be a lot of small line to stow.

The boom in a cruiser will be a lot higher and sail flopping down is a pain in the arse. If you try to unhook the gooseneck and stow the boom and sail in the cabin you have to disconnect the kicking strap, mainsheet and topping lift. It all gets cumbersome.

Wouldn't you agree that it's no less of a pain in a big dinghy being used in cruising-mode?

One of the contributions here earlier (sorry, I forget whose) spoke of the lazyjacks being adjustable, with bungee-cord to pull them forward to the mast when not in use...

...I can't see that they'd clutter the boat unduly, except needing 5 mins when starting up ashore. Much less hassle than the sail & boom create at present, every time I raise and lower.

I'm glad you weren't troubled by the smaller dinghies' sails in the cockpit, but I reckon you can see the Osprey's rig is a bit dominating when lowered, particularly afloat.

Lazyjacks may have to unhook for the boom to go under the cover when not in use, but once the cover is off, the boom can be set up with the sail flaked on it, whether for use in ten minutes or ten hours...and if the lazyjacks are made adjustable, the boom can be angled up from the gooseneck for headroom in the cockpit.

I'll try it. Even if it doesn't work, I'll be honest and show the pictures.

 

[Kelpie]

I'll have to learn to flake the wired luff

If your sail has a wire luff you shouldn't be flaking it! It will need to be rolled. Much better for the sail, apparently.

Another thought on the lazyjacks idea... I take it you envisage keeping the boom on the gooseneck whilst lowering the sail? If your setup is anything like mine you will find there is a very short length of free luff between the boom and the start of the mast slot. This will make it pretty slow to take the sail down as it will all be bunching up in a very small space.

Dropping the boom to the floor gets you an instant loss of windage with minimal fuss- it's really very easy.

 

[Greenheart]

If your sail has a wire luff you shouldn't be flaking it! It will need to be rolled. Much better for the sail, apparently.

I take it you envisage keeping the boom on the gooseneck whilst lowering the sail? If your setup is anything like mine you will find there is a very short length of free luff between the boom and the start of the mast slot.

I'm afraid you're spot-on about the wire bolt-rope, Rob. I can see neat, tight flaking, 'concertina' fashion, won't be easy, but I know that the wire can twist reasonably tightly, so I'm picturing the luff forming a lot of quite big horizontal figures of eight...

...I think I'm lucky regarding the space between the gooseneck and the mast track...it's probably as much as 15" or 18"...so, enough to manipulate the sail. I hope.

I envy your ability to let the boom & sail lie quietly and unobstructively on the floor. Mine really won't!

 

[DownWest]

I did think about a stack pack, but never bothered.

One thing you are overlooking is that you will de-rigging at the end of your day's sail and that will include the lazyjack, which will be a lot of small line to stow. In addition you'll need to decide whether to disconnect it from the boom or the mast and set up a system to do that. Then, next time out you have to set up the LJs again.
Wa-a-ay too much faffing.

This probably wouldn't work with Dan's long mast but, I don't de-rig anything. The mainsail is laced to the boom and yard and when dropped, I have a row of webbing sail-ties with velcro joins that bundle bundle the lot together (they are spaced on another bit of webbing) . I made the gooseneck hinge long enough so the lot can be laid alongside the mast for transport. Set up is: Take off lashings, connect jib halyard to stem fitting with clip, standing in the boat raise the mast with everything attached, put foot in keel step and haul on the halyard to tension the shrouds. Go forward and attach the forestay. Hank on jib, undoe sail ties and launch. The lazy jacks are great to hoist the boom and sail up to clear the cockpit if rowing. (I have an outboard well, but never take the engine to sea. A fairing plug closes the hole and is a handy locker)

To add: One of you points in the title was cost. Apart from a few plastic halyard and camcleats, every thing on the boat is DIY. All the fittings are SS, sails homemade. It is a standing joke with the owner of the gaffer that he paid more for his trailer than I paid for my complete boat inc the trailer. But then I am quite good with metal. :<)) (and wood)

 

[DJE]

I envy your ability to let the boom & sail lie quietly and unobstructively on the floor. Mine really won't!

On the Wayfarer the boom won't fit in the cockpit. The front end goes under the foredeck and the back sticks out over the after deck. We used to take up all the slack in the mainsheet once it was dropped to stop it going over the side. I wonder how stable the Osprey is? Standing up next to the mast flaking the mainsail onto the boom might not be as easy as you think. In a dinghy in any sort of sea I would rather be sitting down. But you won't find out until you put it in the water!

 

[Greenheart]

I wonder how stable the Osprey is? Standing up next to the mast flaking the mainsail onto the boom might not be as easy as you think. In a dinghy in any sort of sea I would rather be sitting down. But you won't find out until you put it in the water!

After many daft overly-ambitious uses of boats which would have fitted in the Osprey's cockpit, I'm thinking her 5'9" beam and subtle hull curves will feel pretty stable...

...but I recognise that my boom-up plan, aboard what was singlemindedly designed as a racing dinghy (with all the inconveniences of that type), will take some trying and testing before I find a satisfactory practical solution.

I won't really mind five minutes of struggle, getting the main down and lashed on to the boom, if the boom can then stay out of the way overhead.

At present, use of the forepeak space is via a low, side-hinged 'catflap' on the starboard side. The position of the thwart/traveller and rear deck prevent use of that space by long items, unless I posted them through the starboard transom-flap and hauled them longways up the whole length of the boat! Not a very practical option.

Now that SWMBO has a LJ, there's only the seat/sidedeck GRP repairs holding us ashore. Although I heard it's chilly on the coast. Warm enough for resin to cure I hope.

 

[Greenheart]

I noticed an extra, unused pair of shroud/standing-rigging attachments near the top of my mast, presumably for a different boat's rigging layout. They're pretty well positioned as mounts for the lazyjacks, unless anyone can see why not?