Dinghy outhaul...surely something missing?

[Greenheart]

You're not racing...You're just sailing about........... Let out the mainsheet...

Hmm...that's what I always did when I couldn't (or didn't) flatten the mainsail in the old days...and as soon as she stopped heeling, she also stopped moving!

But I realise the Osprey's more sophisticated sail controls give more options, thanks for the guide.

In respect of actually going sailing, I'm hopefully getting buoyancy jackets this week. And yesterday was the first day when I wasn't chilled to the bone just standing on the beach...so in spite of a month's steady encouragement from the forum, I wouldn't have launched till about now anyway...

...the boss of my club, and Mrs Boss, seemed to be alone, sailing two weeks ago, and despite their enthusiasm, I've never seen anyone come ashore looking so exhaustedly dejected and miserably cold. And they have drysuits and all the top kit. So I doubt I've missed much!

Irritatingly, I have to spend most of the rest of this month working night and day, so it may be May, before I get my feet wet...

 

[Seajet]

Sailing fast and efficiently has nothing to do with racing, it's fun though and might get one into port ahead of a storm.

 

[Bobc]

"Typically" (and I say that because although it stands for most situations, some goon will take issue with it), you want the outhaul tight for going upwind (to flatten the sail), and when racing, you ease it off going downwind to add belly to the sail.

So if you pull it tight and tie it off (as I suggest), then all you'll be compromising is a tiny % of downwind speed, and at least you'll know that you won't be sailing upwind with a sack of a sail.

Spend your time and money on some warm comfortable clothing.

 

[Lakesailor]

I disagree with the clew outhal being rarely used, I use it all the time for sail shape even on the A22.

Sailing fast and efficiently has nothing to do with racing, it's fun though and might get one into port ahead of a storm.

It's an old boat the bolt rope in the foot will probably be shrunk so no amount of tensioning will take bag out of the sail. He's not racing or doing a circumnavigation of the UK so ultimate pace is not important.
Getting into a quick dinghy from a standing start it'll be weeks (months) before he is bothering about a bit of foot tension. You're overcomplicating the job.

 

[Greenheart]

Sailing fast and efficiently has nothing to do with racing, it's fun though...

Yep, that's why I bought a boat which might well be too powerful for me to keep flat! My hope for a better understanding of sail-adjustment at this time is only a matter of wanting to maintain safe control in a breeze, not racing pace. Although the one may well deliver the other...

...if you pull it tight and tie it off...all you'll be compromising is a tiny % of downwind speed, and at least you won't be sailing upwind with a sack of a sail.

Sounds like a good plan, thanks.

...the bolt rope in the foot will probably be shrunk so no amount of tensioning will take bag out of the sail.

Ouch...you're probably right there Lakey, but whilst it's true that I needn't (and won't) worry about achieving race-winning optimum pace in an old boat, if the mainsail's sagginess makes her hard or impossible to hold upright when there's enough breeze to stir the telltales, I'll be urgently tensioning everything I can.

 

[PeteCooper]

Another vote for make the outhaul as tight as you can and GO SAILING!

 

[Greenheart]

Finally back in England, and the wind and sun today had me wondering how many of my planned adjustments, repairs and refurbishments I can safely forego...

...and I finally got the mainsail up. Now, please don't moan, saying I should just launch without another thought. There are half a dozen holes I want to fill (in the hull, not the sail!), and several limp, tired sections of GRP I want to stiffen, plus matters of the rig that I'm largely in the dark about. As she is, the intense potential pleasure of sailing her would convert (for me) into unhappy anticipation of some inconvenient calamity.

So...if instead, you'll once again kindly share your knowledge of dinghy rigs, here's another question...

...why do I have two eyelets in my mainsail's tack and clew? One at each end in the foot of the sail, and another, perhaps 8 inches above the lower, like this:

View attachment 31408

I'm also wondering just how the tack is secured to the boom (or mast?)...it's all a bit loose in there...I never saw a boat with that great gap between sail and spars...

...is the gap related to this slight damage at the gooseneck end of the boom...

View attachment 31410

...that black elastic cord leads through the hole at one side, as seen, but the hole on the other side is broken open. Is that where the cunningham should be fixed?

And at the clew, what's this plastic thing for?

View attachment 31409

It looks like it should lead the boom's boltrope along the track, but it doesn't even fit in the slot. Does it have another purpose? It's actually on a mainsail from a different boat, so I suppose that boat's boom might have had a broader track.

One other question...why is the window in the mainsail, so high up? I've never seen one up there. Is it for seeing the genoa leech or spinnaker, something like that?

View attachment 31411

All I did was hoist the main, with nothing attached but the halyard...so I'm not mystified by its far-from-perfect setting. Any thoughts will be appreciated, thanks.

 

[prv]

The upper eyelet at the tack will be a for a Cunningham. You can ignore it for now. Looks like the tack eyelet was held down by a pin between the two lugs on the boom, but as you say, one is broken. I would probably just put a shackle through the remaining one and the tack eyelet, or even a small lashing would do.

The slug at the clew is for the boom track, as you surmise. Not surprising it doesn't fit if the sail is off a different boat! I guess you can probably do without it, might be a good idea to put a lashing through the clew eye and around under the boom to take the upward load of the leech which is what the slug would normally do.

No idea what's going on with the window.

Pete

 

[DJE]

View attachment 31408 View attachment 31410

View attachment 31409 View attachment 31411

There should be a big split pin through the holes in the boom end fitting where you have the black rope poked through. The pin also goes in the bottom corner eye of the sail to hold it in place. If one of the holes is broken you might need a new end fitting, but you can probably lash it up with a bit of rope. The upper eye in the sail above the gooseneck is for the cunningham tackle to tighten the luff and depower the sail without stretching it beyond the maximum permissible size. The upper eye on the leech is for a flattening reef to take some of the belly out of the sail in strong winds. Not often seen these days.

The black plastic slug at the clew should be in the sail groove it carries the big loads from the leach. If it doesn't fit there's something wrong. Clean out the slot and remove any corrosion. Put some PTFE drylube on it and try again. it has to go in there.

The window looks like it is for looking at the spinaker leach.




Now please, pretty please, with sugar on. Sail the f***ing thing!

 

[bbg]

...why do I have two eyelets in my mainsail's tack and clew? One at each end in the foot of the sail, and another, perhaps 8 inches above the lower, like this:

View attachment 31408

I'm also wondering just how the tack is secured to the boom (or mast?)...it's all a bit loose in there...I never saw a boat with that great gap between sail and spars...

...is the gap related to this slight damage at the gooseneck end of the boom...

View attachment 31410

...that black elastic cord leads through the hole at one side, as seen, but the hole on the other side is broken open. Is that where the cunningham should be fixed?

The lower cringle is for the tack. The upper is for the cunningham.

...is the gap related to this slight damage at the gooseneck end of the boom...

View attachment 31410

...that black elastic cord leads through the hole at one side, as seen, but the hole on the other side is broken open. Is that where the cunningham should be fixed?

The two holes are for a shackle. Normally the pin of the shackle would go through the two holes, while the "U" would hold the sail. Since one hole is broken you could manage a bodge by using small line (spectra or dyneema, maybe 3 mm) around the boom and another around the front of the mast. Neither should be cinched tight. Just something to hold it in place. Two or three turns and a reef knot will work fine.

Hard to see where the cunnungham should be fixed. It could go to the deck on both sides.

And at the clew, what's this plastic thing for?

View attachment 31409

It looks like it should lead the boom's boltrope along the track, but it doesn't even fit in the slot. Does it have another purpose? It's actually on a mainsail from a different boat, so I suppose that boat's boom might have had a broader track.

Yes, that should go in the track. Can you file it down? Not ideal but your alternative is to open the whole track which may permit the bolt rope to escape or fit a new slug. Or cut it off and use three wraps of dyneema with a reef knot to hold it to the boom. The last idea is not crazy. A lot of loose-foozed mains use a belt of velcro wrapped a couple of times around the boom and through the clew. I crossed the Atlantic using three wraps of 3 mm dyneema. It will work fine.

One other question...why is the window in the mainsail, so high up? I've never seen one up there. Is it for seeing the genoa leech or spinnaker, something like that?

View attachment 31411

It may become obvious when you start sailing. Possibly for seeing the jib telltales, but as the main is from another boat the configuration and geometry may be different and it may not be very useful. Or it may. As I think about it, I am almost 100% sure that it will be either one or the other (that is, either useful or not).

Edit - beaten to it on all counts.

 

[Lakesailor]

Now please, pretty please, with sugar on. Sail the f***ing thing!

I echo your sentiment, but am not holding my breath. It really doesn';t matter what the bags are like. If they stop enough wind to make the boat move, then fun will be had by all and all the questions will dry up.

 

[Greenheart]

Now please, pretty please, with sugar on. Sail the f***ing thing!

Thanks for your intelligent advice, DJE, but with respect, surely you can see why I'm not yet sailing, when so many minor matters aren't solved?

I suppose I could go out with the whole mess of sail flopping about half-secured, and the hull taking on water like a colander, but I'd rather wait & get it straight.

...it may not be very useful. Or it may. As I think about it, I am almost 100% sure that it will be either one or the other (that is, either useful or not).

That's rock-solid, unarguable logic!

Lots of good sense, I thank you bbg. Are sails belonging to different examples of the same, tightly-controlled class, likely to be substantially different in shape?

 

[prv]

Thanks for your intelligent advice, DJE, but with respect, surely you can see why I'm not yet sailing, when so many minor matters aren't solved?

Can't really comment on the hull as I haven't seen it, but the stuff on this sail is hardly a big deal. Six feet of braided curtain cord would see it right in five minutes, and is the sort of minor lashup I'd expect to have to do on the beach with a boat of this vintage.

Pete

 

[Greenheart]

Can't really comment on the hull as I haven't seen it, but the stuff on this sail is hardly a big deal...

Indeed, if she was an irrecoverable non-runner, I'd hardly have bought the boat - but sailing her before I've understood basics such as you gents have kindly explained this evening, or without repairing cracks in her undersides, can't be cleverer than taking a little time to get it right.

Sail shape was a bête-noire for me in the old days...I almost never got it right, and was routinely overpowered in moderate conditions. If that occurred again, (as I suspect it would, given an overly casual approach to a powerful rig of which I've no experience) I'd feel a lot dumber than I do, asking questions here now.

Besides, I dipped a toe in the water and it's still frinking freezing! I'm keen, but there's no need for undignified haste. Not without a drysuit, anyway.

 

[bbg]

Lots of good sense, I thank you bbg. Are sails belonging to different examples of the same, tightly-controlled class, likely to be substantially different in shape?

It depends on the class. Laser sails will all be the same. Moth sails won't (I think).

 

[Lakesailor]

There is a big stick pointing up and a smaller one pointing backwards. The sail will fit between them. The grp paste with fibres you squished in any holes before you got it off the trolley will be dry by the time you've put the sail up. There will be a bit of a handkerchief to tie on at the front. Add water and you're off.

When you get back you will have a new list of items to attend to, but they will be related to what you found out whilst messing about. (Don't forget your £25 wetsuit from ebay)