Dinghy for cruising

[DownWest]

Some of the best trailersailers are new, with water ballast, but a bit eye watering on price, Bayraiders etc. J & J, stawarts of the DCA for a while, have a boat that looks a bit like a Wayfarer. But it is much more. He designed and built it himself. Two rigs on the same mast. Gunter sloop, or a smaller bermudian. They have been cross channel and up the Friesen Isls. Very stable, with a lead center plate. Sets up for sleeping very quickly and a neat cooking box that stows away.
Launches quickly and tows behind a small car.
The Wanderer was Mrs Dye's take on a cruising dinghy , but maybe for one?
Her hubby Frank was cruising the Potomac, just off the Chesapeak bay. My wife's uncle had a place on the north shore, saw him and hailed him. Invited Frank for dinner, but he wouldn't accept a bed, just camped in the Wayfarer on Uncle's dock.
DW

 

[Praxinoscope]

I wonder how many on this forum have sailed a Leisure 17, they seem to be mentioned in a remarkable number of threads.
Ours was a fairly early one 1969 we collected it from the Nissen hut on Stanstead airport that was the Cobramold factory at the time.

 

[DownWest]

There are many small cruisers that are trailersailer and do not actually mean hard work / time to launch / recover .....

The Alacrity I had many years ago - my non boaty Wife and I would launch / recover .... took us all over Solent .... was easily towed behind any family car (OK - I had both a Series 2 Land Rover and the 2.8i Capri to choose from .... ) ......
Engine on back was a Seagull 40+ .... nothing fancy ....

Even though I have now boats much bigger ... I still look back on those days of that little 19ft'r with pride and a smile.

Any boat with keels means you have to dunk the trailer everytime. I sail an Oughtred Whilly Tern and built a trailer that can launch without immersing the hubs. Even so, I have had to replace the wheel bearings twice. The local friend has had multiple bearing changes and two complet axles for his 15fter.
If brakes are involved, even worse. But one assumes that the OP is not looking for a boat/trailer that needs them.
My new boat is likely a perfect solution. Ballasted, so suites my creaky bones. Sleeps two in the cabin with space for a potty and cooking. Unstayed masts, so quick set up. Draws 18 inches with no plate.
Only catch, you would have to build it...
Here:

That version is 15ft 4 in. As designed.
Mine is a bit longer at 17ft, but basicly the same.
Oh, depending on build, weight is 400 odd kg so managable for daysailing.

 

[Kelpie]

Ease of trailer-sailing is almost as much to do with the trailer as the boat.
A Wayfarer on a badly set up trailer can be a pig to launch and recover. And setting up the rig, straps, etc, gets better if you put a bit of thought on to it.

In contrast, I've seen heavy RIBs effortlessly handled on well designed trailers with good winches, launching arms, flushing hubs, etc.

 

[mattpitts74]

Thanks all for the comments, it all certainly food for thought. Just to pick up on a few points. We initially were thinking something like a Shrimper 19 And have had some very informed advice from members of the Shrimpers Association and a sail on a Shrimper. But we'd hadn't really thought through all the implications of owning the boat. I had rather naively thought we would simply keep the boat at home and trailer sail her. But I think the reality of doing this frequently is hard work, as someone here has already mentioned. Then you get into the cost of mooring or maria, which is out of reach for us at the moment.

Then it dawned on me when we were out on the Shrimper that my other half had never sailed when she looked pretty alarmed when the boat heeled over in the rather gusty wind. So all of this has made us rethink, at least for now. As someone said it would be great if she can gain some experience and enjoy dinghy sailing before considering anything much bigger.

Also Roger Barnes is very good at selling the dream both on YouTube and in his book. We have also joined the DCA, so I'm sure that will be really helpful over time.

I think one thing that drew us to something like a Scaffie is that appears to be quite versatile, Other half is also keen to explore local rivers and creeks. So having a boat that rows well and is designed for an outboard, seems to make sense in those scenarios, Plus being able to sail and drop the sail quickly also seems an advantage, which seems easier on the more trad boats, but I expect I'm wrong on this a with the right setup the sails on a Wayfarer can also be dropped super quick.

I also think that it is unlikely that we will do much more than day sailing initially, and maybe the odd night, but we are also fair hardy backpackers, so quite happy to camp out on a boat. We are based near Chichester, s plenty of options fairly nearby, if we can tow behind the car and launch fairly easily and quickly.

 

[mattpitts74]

Ease of trailer-sailing is almost as much to do with the trailer as the boat.
A Wayfarer on a badly set up trailer can be a pig to launch and recover. And setting up the rig, straps, etc, gets better if you put a bit of thought on to it.

In contrast, I've seen heavy RIBs effortlessly handled on well designed trailers with good winches, launching arms, flushing hubs, etc.

I do remember from past experince the Wayfarer being hard work and that was with several people. But I'm sure it's possible to setup, launch and recover more quickly. Although I suspect its still hard work for two?

 

[[193211]]

I do remember from past experince the Wayfarer being hard work and that was with several people. But I'm sure it's possible to setup, launch and recover more quickly. Although I suspect its still hard work for two?

The Scaffie weighs more than a Wayfarer…

Very broadly speaking, heavy = stable. Heavy in dinghies means back injuries unless you have a system. You can protect yourself with correct setup.

 

[Kelpie]

I do remember from past experince the Wayfarer being hard work and that was with several people. But I'm sure it's possible to setup, launch and recover more quickly. Although I suspect its still hard work for two?

I've never managed to get mine set up quite the way I wanted. But in an ideal world I would have:
- a jockey wheel
- an extension pole to let me back the trailer further down the slipway without getting the car wet
- a winch on the trailer
- guide arms on both the trolley and the trailer
- mast support + lighting board ready to hook on to the rudder fittings
-specific ropes and straps for everything, marked and made to the correct length.
- a crutch for mast lowering

Not impossible, but very few dinghies are set up for easy trailing.

 

[B27]

There are several clubs on Chichester Harbour where you could base a dinghy and explore the harbour.
Also Langstone Harbour, or even Portsmouth.
Many of those clubs have moorings, waiting lists may not be ever so long for a smaller cruiser.
Sometimes moorings are available on a temporary basis, it's worth asking around.

Wayfarers are quite heavy and IMHO over rated. You can camp with a smaller, lighter boat which can be a lot more manageable on the beach. Many 14ft boats are easily launched from a trolley by one person without a car or anything, if the slipway is good.
Also for this kind of thing, it might be best to have a boat that's not too precious, I would not drag my racing dinghy up the beach, but would happily do that with a cheap old boat.

I'd suggest wandering along to a few clubs and chatting to people.

 

[oldbloke]

Can I suggest starting by taking your beloved to a nice warm, Mediterranean, sailing beach club where a handsome young sailing instructor can take her sailing and then deliver her back to the bar.
If she is a bit nervous and totally inexperienced and you are still somewhat of a beginner I think just buying a boat and setting off is not a recipe for a happy ending.
I have been sailing and racing with my wife 30 times a year for 40 years and it is still walking on eggshells as often as not!

 

[FairweatherDave]

I do remember from past experince the Wayfarer being hard work and that was with several people. But I'm sure it's possible to setup, launch and recover more quickly. Although I suspect its still hard work for two?

Might I suggest you were doing it as a group activity? So everyone mucked in and pushed the boat up a slipway? I used to launch and retrieve my W at Itchenor single handed. Much easier with two but let the car do any heavy work with the trolley on a rope and a jockey wheel. Kelpie is completely right and launching arms etc can make the job a lot easier. And lots of practice.
A lot of the DCA boats favoured are in the 14ft length but were also sailed and launched single handed.

 

[doug748]

......I also think that it is unlikely that we will do much more than day sailing initially, and maybe the odd night, but we are also fair hardy backpackers, so quite happy to camp out on a boat. We are based near Chichester, s plenty of options fairly nearby, if we can tow behind the car and launch fairly easily and quickly.

As B27 has suggested it may be a good idea to get yourself any cheap, suitable small dinghy to get into the groove, rather than shooting for the ideal right away, You may hate it and if you only invested in a Mirror 10 it would be easy to move on.
Remember you don't have to sleep on the boat - a smaller light boat can be beached and handled ashore anywhere, and you can use bivvy bags or a small tent.

PS,

Notwithstanding my earlier remarks Here is a Scaffie on Ebay:

Original Devon Scaffie (Drascombe) 14ft Sailing Dinghy | eBay
.

 

[ylop]

Thanks all for the comments, it all certainly food for thought. Just to pick up on a few points. We initially were thinking something like a Shrimper 19 And have had some very informed advice from members of the Shrimpers Association and a sail on a Shrimper. But we'd hadn't really thought through all the implications of owning the boat. I had rather naively thought we would simply keep the boat at home and trailer sail her. But I think the reality of doing this frequently is hard work, as someone here has already mentioned. Then you get into the cost of mooring or maria, which is out of reach for us at the moment.

Launching a recovering any boat is hard work / pita - some are definitely worse than others. If you want to use the boat lots working out the logistics for this part should be your priority - you CAN upgrade trailers, build contraptions to help raise masts etc - but all that takes time and costs money so buy the right boat first time.

Then it dawned on me when we were out on the Shrimper that my other half had never sailed when she looked pretty alarmed when the boat heeled over in the rather gusty wind. So all of this has made us rethink, at least for now. As someone said it would be great if she can gain some experience and enjoy dinghy sailing before considering anything much bigger.

OR she should get some experience in something which is well balanced and there's zero likelihood of her going for a swim!

Also Roger Barnes is very good at selling the dream both on YouTube and in his book. We have also joined the DCA, so I'm sure that will be really helpful over time.

I think he's selling a false dream! I'm not actually sure that a slightly mumbly old bearded guy sailing a slightly unusual old boat, wearing dated kit etc. Is the image of dinghy cruising the DCA should be as enthusiastically promoting. He's proudly eccentric, and there's a bit of me loves him for that, clearly the rest of the DCA seem to too. But as a branch of sailing it should probably be saying "you don't need to be a salty old sea dog, wear an itchy woollen jumper and enjoy varnishing to mess around in boats".

So having a boat that rows well and is designed for an outboard, seems to make sense in those scenarios, Plus being able to sail and drop the sail quickly also seems an advantage, which seems easier on the more trad boats, but I expect I'm wrong on this a with the right setup the sails on a Wayfarer can also be dropped super quick.

You can drop the sail on almost any dinghy in less than a minute. A furling headsail would be a big advantage, but might be an extra PITA for rigging every time to tow it home. Any prospect of keeping a boat at a club or similar? Realistically for your first season in some where like Chichester you'll have plenty of exploring to do on your doorstep without needing to tow it anywhere.

I also think that it is unlikely that we will do much more than day sailing initially, and maybe the odd night, but we are also fair hardy backpackers, so quite happy to camp out on a boat. We are based near Chichester, s plenty of options fairly nearby, if we can tow behind the car and launch fairly easily and quickly.

I've met a few dinghy cruisers who become a bit obsessed with camping afloat and spend a lot of time (and/or money) to make modifications for that - who 9/10 times could have used a tent on the shore, or even slept in a warm hostel/bunkhouse! Its a nice idea but when its pouring down and your partner is defecating in a bucket whilst you are worrying about the anchor holding its not quite the same!

 

[ProDave]

Notwithstanding my earlier remarks Here is a Scaffie on Ebay:

Original Devon Scaffie (Drascombe) 14ft Sailing Dinghy | eBay

I still question the logic of paying £4500 for that, when that sort of money will get you a pretty good small cruiser ready to go sailing.

 

[mattpitts74]

Launching a recovering any boat is hard work / pita - some are definitely worse than others. If you want to use the boat lots working out the logistics for this part should be your priority - you CAN upgrade trailers, build contraptions to help raise masts etc - but all that takes time and costs money so buy the right boat first time.

OR she should get some experience in something which is well balanced and there's zero likelihood of her going for a swim!

I think he's selling a false dream! I'm not actually sure that a slightly mumbly old bearded guy sailing a slightly unusual old boat, wearing dated kit etc. Is the image of dinghy cruising the DCA should be as enthusiastically promoting. He's proudly eccentric, and there's a bit of me loves him for that, clearly the rest of the DCA seem to too. But as a branch of sailing it should probably be saying "you don't need to be a salty old sea dog, wear an itchy woollen jumper and enjoy varnishing to mess around in boats".

You can drop the sail on almost any dinghy in less than a minute. A furling headsail would be a big advantage, but might be an extra PITA for rigging every time to tow it home. Any prospect of keeping a boat at a club or similar? Realistically for your first season in some where like Chichester you'll have plenty of exploring to do on your doorstep without needing to tow it anywhere.

I've met a few dinghy cruisers who become a bit obsessed with camping afloat and spend a lot of time (and/or money) to make modifications for that - who 9/10 times could have used a tent on the shore, or even slept in a warm hostel/bunkhouse! Its a nice idea but when its pouring down and your partner is defecating in a bucket whilst you are worrying about the anchor holding its not quite the same!

Thanks all very sensible, it's so interesting and obvious really that sailing means different things to different people.

We're not going to rush and buy some expensive boat right now, and considering it's possible to get hold of a Mirror for a few hundred quid, I think we'll do that and get some more training and go from there! Unless people think there are other cheap alternatives to a Mirror? My only concern about the Mirror is that it will feel small and tippy for my other half?

Thanks

 

[ProDave]

By boat share partner also dinghy sails. He recently sold his GP 14 as he was finding it too heavy on the slipway and bought a Gull to replace it. He seems hapy with that for now.

 

[mattpitts74]

By boat share partner also dinghy sails. He recently sold his GP 14 as he was finding it too heavy on the slipway and bought a Gull to replace it. He seems hapy with that for now.

I'm right in thinking the Gull is roughly the same size as a Mirror.

 

[FairweatherDave]

Launching a recovering any boat is hard work / pita - some are definitely worse than others. If you want to use the boat lots working out the logistics for this part should be your priority - you CAN upgrade trailers, build contraptions to help raise masts etc - but all that takes time and costs money so buy the right boat first time.

OR she should get some experience in something which is well balanced and there's zero likelihood of her going for a swim!

I think he's selling a false dream! I'm not actually sure that a slightly mumbly old bearded guy sailing a slightly unusual old boat, wearing dated kit etc. Is the image of dinghy cruising the DCA should be as enthusiastically promoting. He's proudly eccentric, and there's a bit of me loves him for that, clearly the rest of the DCA seem to too. But as a branch of sailing it should probably be saying "you don't need to be a salty old sea dog, wear an itchy woollen jumper and enjoy varnishing to mess around in boats".

You can drop the sail on almost any dinghy in less than a minute. A furling headsail would be a big advantage, but might be an extra PITA for rigging every time to tow it home. Any prospect of keeping a boat at a club or similar? Realistically for your first season in some where like Chichester you'll have plenty of exploring to do on your doorstep without needing to tow it anywhere.

I've met a few dinghy cruisers who become a bit obsessed with camping afloat and spend a lot of time (and/or money) to make modifications for that - who 9/10 times could h

I'm right in thinking the Gull is roughly the same size as a Mirror.

 

[oldbloke]

A Mirror or Gull are not highly strung boats, but they are quite small for 2 full size people and where the bodyweight is put is very important. Personally I would suggest that the sweet spot between space and intrinsic stability versus weight and hard work moving it around is around the 13-14 foot mark. Think Enterprise, Wanderer, GP14, Laser 13.

 

[FairweatherDave]

A Mirror is really a small boat in my eyes. Easy ashore and fine for one. But think of it as the original Fiat 500, it is cramped. Get at least a Golf, or a Wayfarer = battered Volvo estate. If you both weigh 10 stone a Mirror might suit but really they need good weight distribution not to feel tippy. Yes some DCA people South coast have acheived things in Mirrors sailing on their own.
And as a Chichester based sailor I would disagree with ylop about camping ashore. Unless you return to where you started to trail your boat to the campsite each night.