dinghy and trailer questions

[stu9000]

Hi

Having bought a lovely sailing dinghy the inevitable questions arise about the gear.

Below is quick video of the wheel.
Is this a sign of a worn bearing?





I was also wondering what the best way to secure my trailer might be.
Currently I have taken a wheel off, but should I get a wheel lock or device that covers the bit that goes over the car towing ball?

You can see from the picture below that the sail isnt sitting very well.
This is my first gaff so please excuse poor terminology!
Have I laced it too tight to the mast?
Should the top boom be more vertical?

Lovely sail this weekend and very happy with the new dinghy.

As always, thanks for the help

S

 

[Tranona]

It is a gunter rather than a gaff rig and looks like you have not got the yard high enough up the main mast.

 

[Avocet]

Nice wee boat! Re. the wheel bearing, what you can feel is "end float". To check the bearing, you're best putting the wheel on and trying to "tilt" it by grabbing the top and bottom of the tyre and pushing the top away from you whilst pulling the bottom towards you, then reverse the movement (pull the top and push the bottom). You're trying to "rock" the wheel on it;s axle rather than rotate it around the axle. If you can feel play in that situation, yes, it might be wheel bearing failure brewing. Also, (without the wheel) did it feel harsh and "gritty" when you spun it? If not (but you have some play) pull that big plastic cover off the middle. Inside (along with some sticky grease) you ought to find a "castellated" nut with a split pin through it. Pull out the split pin, tighten the nut a couple of flats, and replace the split pin, then check again. If the bearing is healthy (but a bit worn) that should take the play out. DO NOT do the nut up tight, they're not supposed to be.

Re. the rig, it's a gunter rig and it looks OK - MAYBE the halyard could be hoisted a bit higher to get rid of some of the wrinkles towards the bottom of the mainsail. How far off disappearing into the mast is the attachment holding the upper portion of the mast?

 

[VicS]

Hi

Having bought a lovely sailing dinghy the inevitable questions arise about the gear.

Below is quick video of the wheel.
Is this a sign of a worn bearing?

There is definitely something very wrong with the bearings. There should not be all that end float. ( nor should there be any wobble)

I was also wondering what the best way to secure my trailer might be.
Currently I have taken a wheel off, but should I get a wheel lock or device that covers the bit that goes over the car towing ball?

lots of different security devices out there. Some hitches will take a long hasp padlock or cable lock. ( That's what I use) There are devices that fit in the ball socket . Things like you describe. Wheel clamps. etc etec

You can see from the picture below that the sail isnt sitting very well.
This is my first gaff so please excuse poor terminology!
Have I laced it too tight to the mast?
Should the top boom be more vertical?

The mast looks to be excessively raked. Set the boat level .... put a spirit level on the centre thwart and adjust the boat fore and aft so that it is sitting level. Set the mast vertical by adjusting the rigging. It looks like its raked aft by about 10" or so in the picture.

Hoist the gaff as high as it will go and up against the mast. Then lace the tack corner to the boom and the clew corner to the end of the boom. Tighten the tack corner down to just pull a slight crease down the sail. Dont overtighten the clew. Leave a little slack for "normal" wind strengths, Tighten it a bit for strong winds. Its much too tight in the picture, causing all those creases across the sail

Only lightly lace the luff to the mast.

The kicking strap looks as though it could be attached further along the boom. So it makes an angle of 45° is best.


You might ind a copy of the Ladybird book on Sailing and Boating useful.... seriously. Its only a kid's book but its spot on! Always avaialble on ebay... £4 is enough to pay. There are some at silly prices at the moment. Yes I have one!

 

[Lakesailor]

The outhaul (bit of line that ties the sail to the boom) on the end of the boom is too tight.

Like Vic says, hoist the gaff as high as you can (not too tight though) using the main halyard. Then adjust the outhaul so there are no creases but the foot (bottom) of the sail is not loose. Do the lacing last, not too tight.

Funnily enough a video came up after yours which guides you through fitting wheel bearings.

If replacing bearings you need to know if they are metric or imperial. The stub axle will either be 1" or 25mm. You can get bearing numbers from the old bearings, stamped around the outer track.
That end float could mean you have the wrong bearings fitted or that a spacer is missing (not usual these days, the hub has ridges inside that the bearing outer track seats on) or that the washer from under the retaining nut is missing (but that may be dependent on exactly how the washer fits, the washer should engage on the end of the bearing inner track).
You can but hubs with bearings ready fitted on-line for about £14. the bearings on their own are about £3 or so. They will be Chinese and corrode in a year. But to be honest if you pay £12 each for quality bearings, they will as well.

The bearings on the left are bad. Those on the right will fight another year.

Fitting bearings should be easy.

The end of the inner track of the outer bearing should project over the threads on the stuba axle, so that the washer can bear on it and apply light pressure to keep the bearings engaged

 

[VicS]

Funnily enough a video came up after yours which guides you through fitting wheel bearings.

Can I make the following comments

Firstly a dinghy trailer might have ball races , not tapered roller bearings like those shown. If it does then they have a spacer between them and the castle nut will be fully tightened on reassembly.

Now about the video

the outer bearing tracks can be knocked out of the hub and should be replaced with the bearing. It is not necessary to replace the whole hub if its still serviceable. LS' s pictures show the new tracks along with the new bearings .

He is putting in far far too much grease. Work grease in around the rollers ( or balls) put enough in the hub to no more than half fill the free space between the bearings. If its overfilled the grease overheats and breaks down. About half fill the cap too, no more.

To my mind he leaves the bearings just a little to slack. I tighten the castle nut to be sure the new tracks are pulled into place properly, back it off then do it up finger tight before fitting the split pin. The free play should be barely perceptible at the wheel rim.

 

[William_H]

My trailer bearings are the same style. Just a few pointers on bearing maintenance. I dunk mine on retrieval. So I end up checking the bearings virtually every time. One trick is to not take the wheel off the hub. I just lift the whole wheel and hub off the axle after taking off the castelated nut. This makes the whole operation much easier. It also means that the wheel studs stay very tight and slightly corroded in place. I did have a scare where a couple of wheel nuts came loose damaging the wheel and snapping off at least one stud out of 5. Anyway that is my phobia. 1 tonne boat on single axle.
I don't tow very far so end to put up withy pretty manky (noisy) bearings. Another trick is that it is a big job to get the bearing cups out of the hub. You may get away with just replacing the roller and inner cups. Saves a lot of effort providing the replacement is identical.
So yeah do em qick do em often is my motto. As for security of trailer. Chain or old rigging wire with loops in the end and a pad lock can slow a thief down. Either chain it up to a tree or chain around through any hole sin the wheel. Or a lock on cover over the hitch. Boat theft of trailer boats is common around here. So many trialer boats all a bit the same easy to sell on. Your little sailing dinghy would be quite safe I imagine however. good luck olewill

 

[prv]

Something very wrong with the rig setup to cause those horrible creases.

First thought is that the yard ought to be higher up the mast - but the halyard arrangement doesn't look like that's the case. (If it was a Mirror, the yard should also be closer to the mast (halyard tighter) but I don't know what's normal for a Tideway. EDIT: This is your "top boom more vertical" - yes it should be, but that's not the cause of the creases.)

Same effect could be caused by the sail being too far down the yard instead of pulled out to the end - can't see the peak in the picture to know if this is the case.

Third thought is that the boltrope might have shrunk, leaving extra fabric even though the luff appears to be tight. Sometimes it's possible to cut a few stitches and stretch it out.

Perhaps the luff lacing is far too tight, pulling the lower part of the sail forwards and inducing the creases that way. In gaff rig (less familiar with gunter, but it's probably the same) the luff is basically stretched between tack and throat and the lacing or hoops do very little when it's set, they're mostly for keeping it under control on the way up and down.

Is it possible that the sail and spars are not a matching set, but have been cobbled together from different types of boat?

EDIT: Having another look at the pic, I reckon an over-tight luff lacing is most likely, and it's an easy fix to try.

Pete

 

[Lakesailor]

Another trick is that it is a big job to get the bearing cups out of the hub.

Come on Will. It's a 5 minute job with a punch and a hammer.

Can I make the following comments

Firstly a dinghy trailer might have ball races , not tapered roller bearings like those shown. If it does then they have a spacer between them and the castle nut will be fully tightened on reassembly.

Now about the video

To be honest I fast forwarded the video. I'll take you word for it that he isn't very helpful. The point on grease is valid. I only put in what you see in the picture I posted,that is, I fill the races. There again I check bearings regualarly and move the trailer around (or spin the wheels) monthly if it's not in use.
As you normally need to put new bearings in reasonably regularly, (depending on the use) I would do it before any long journey. I sold a car to someone in Kent (I'm in Cumbria) and suggested I should put new bearings in the trailer before he collected it as that is probably the longest trip he would be doing for some time. Same with tyres. if you think they are a bit dicky, fit them them in time for a long trip. Saves a lot of hassle that you could encounter.

 

[stu9000]

Brilliant lads.
The halyards are very worn and knotted where they have parted. I will replace them which should help getting the top boom more virtical. The mast may well be too swept back . ive only rigged her once, on the water, and need to fine tune bottle screws and replace some shackes.
I did lace the sail quite tightly to the mast, too much so I think.

The trailer bearings did not grumble when turned so I'm hoping a little bit of tightening oof the nut will fix the small amount of float. I didn't feel any wobble but will double check when I get the wheel back on.

Due to the nature of the suspension the wheel is angled out of virtical. It is as if the dinghy isn't heavy enough to compress the suspension which surprises me as she is no spring chicken. I see no way to adjust it but should I be concerned ? The angle is fairly pronounced . perhaps 10 degrees off virtical?

Tyre psi is 90. Should I go up to this or stick to around 50? Tyres look relatively new with no cracking on sidewalls.

Trailer and dinghy tow well. A rhythmic thrumming sets in at about 60 mph and gets more violent if I push it. Hence my questions. Its not a big issue as I would not tow much faster anyway but has anyone had this ?

I appreciate all the help

S

 

[Lakesailor]

You are limited to 50 mph on single lane roads and 60 mph on dual carriageways and Motorways.
90 psi is way too hard. 50 psi is way too hard. A small dinghy like that will ride on a trailer much better if the pressures are 20/25 psi. It will also help the sidewalls flex and the for tread to lay better to the road.
I sold a Heron dinghy to someone who decided to up the pressure from my preferred figures to over 50 psi. He rang up 2 weeks later to complain that the trailer pads had punched through the (new) plywood floor. No shit Sherlock.
You may well get a bit of extra wear to the edge of the tread, but most trailers don't do high mileages and the tyres have no acceleration, braking or steering forces.
It's far more likely the sun will perish the rubber before the tyres wear out.

 

[davidpbo]

My boat and trailer (4 Wheel braked) weighs approx 2400Kgs. I used to run the tyre pressure quite high maybe 50 or 60 psi but have dropped it back to about 40 PSI. A lot of trailer axles and swinging suspension arms have limited shock absorbtion and need a bit of help from the tyres, (My opinion only). If I am towing the trailer empty for any distance, I drop the pressure even further as without the boat on oit bounces a lot if I don't.

Personally, with a simple trailer like the o.p's I would be inclined to replace the bearings and seals unless I was sure of their condition, anyway. They don't cost too much . Boat trailers often don't have an easy life, often rarely moved for months at a time, dunked in water (Often Salt Water) then left to stand.

I use a grease intended to be use in bearings which get dunked in water, I used to used Duckhams Keenol but they stopped making it unfortunately as that seemed to really cloy to the bearings. Don't know whether it ahs any real advantage.

 

[VicS]

I use a grease intended to be use in bearings which get dunked in water, I used to used Duckhams Keenol but they stopped making it unfortunately as that seemed to really cloy to the bearings. Don't know whether it ahs any real advantage.

I did not realise Keenol was suitable for wheel bearings. The "replacement", Ramonol white grease, is not, there is a cautionary note to that effect on the tin, but Ramonol Universal Grease is recommended for boat trailer bearings.

 

[Lakesailor]

Further to the trailer tyre pressure issue. I bought the lowest rated indespension-type units (250kgs the pair) for my clinker dinghy trailer. A 50 odd year old clinker dinghy doesn't want bashing up and down.
I dropped the tyre pressure until they just started to show a sidewall bulge. It ended up at 15 psi. There is no issue with tyres leaving the rim as trailer wheels use inner tubes.
The result was an outfit that towed beautifully without any bashing and crashing.

 

[davidpbo]

I did not realise Keenol was suitable for wheel bearings. The "replacement", Ramonol white grease, is not, there is a cautionary note to that effect on the tin, but Ramonol Universal Grease is recommended for boat trailer bearings.

You have got me thinking there. I am pretty sure I would have checked it at the time I was using it.

 

[stu9000]

OK I'll try a lower psi. It was a very hot day and my concern was too much heat build up through tyre flex. I thought it might lead to delamination. But the tyres are not cracked so I will awe how it goes .

 

[Lakesailor]

I see what you are saying, but flex will be minimal as the load will be well below the tyres rating. If you are doing 30 miles at 50 mph I doubt you would even be able to feel any heat with your hands on the tyres.
On the bearing front. I would certainly consider putting new ones in. i have a theory that until you have done jobs like that you don't "own" the thing. At least you will then know they are ok.
Usually when I set off with a trailer that i don't know(and have checked the bearings for play and coarseness) I'll stop after 5 miles or so and try my hand on the hubs to see if they are getting warm. Failures are often bearings overheating and welding themselves to the stub axle which tears off.

 

[Avocet]

OK I'll try a lower psi. It was a very hot day and my concern was too much heat build up through tyre flex. I thought it might lead to delamination. But the tyres are not cracked so I will awe how it goes .

That is indeed, the issue, but as Lakey says, those tyres are SO well within their performance envelope that I wouldn't worry too much. Eventually it might accelerate the breakdown of the sidewalls and if I was going to be doing a long motorway run at 60, I'd probably put them up a bit. Fortunately, the sorts of roads where you'd be doing sustained high speeds are usually quite smooth. I have exactly the same problems with my dinghy on a trailer (which is also a Heron)! The rubber suspension units seized long ago so the only suspension it has is the flex in the tyre sidewalls.

The droning noise is typical of wheel bearings. It will only take minutes to undo the castellated nut and pull the whole hub off (as said previously, don't even both undoing the wheel nuts) and then you'll be able to examine the tracks and at least you'll know how far off needing new ones you are. I think my last (complete set!) of wheelbearings for the Heron trailer was £8 from one of the online suppliers like bearingboys or Bearing King. Cheap no-name Chinese tat, but they'll die of rust long before they wear out.

 

[Avocet]

I sold a Heron dinghy to someone who decided to up the pressure from my preferred figures to over 50 psi. He rang up 2 weeks later to complain that the trailer pads had punched through the (new) plywood floor. No shit Sherlock.
You may well get a bit of extra wear to the edge of the tread, but most trailers don't do high mileages and the tyres have no acceleration, braking or steering forces.
It's far more likely the sun will perish the rubber before the tyres wear out.

Spooky! I bought a Heron with a couple of holes in the bottom just above where the side supports were! (It was a fibreglass one though). In fact, the whole bottom was pretty rough. i think the previous owner would probably have done less damage just towing it WITHOUT the trailer, in fact! I often find people seem to want the side supports to take all the boat's weight rather than letting the keel rollers do that and just have the side supports to stop it falling over. The other thing that might help the OP is to lash it TIGHTLY to the trailer so that the boat and trailer are forced to move as one. I think you can do more damage to a small, light boat if the trailer is freer to flex under it because when one wheel hits a bump, it "punches" the side support towards the hull, rather than having it in contact from the start.