Differences between engines. Concern or not?

[MedDreamer]

As Captain Mainwaring would say "Well spotted Wilson, I was wondering who would point that out..........ahmmm....as you were, men"

 

[MapisM]

Alternatively look at the fuel tank gauges

Do you mean sight gauges, assuming that the tanks have them?
Because if you hope to spot such difference on dial gauges - genny aside - there are only two words I can think of: good luck!

 

[MedDreamer]

Do you mean sight gauges, assuming that the tanks have them?
Because if you hope to spot such difference on dial gauges - genny aside - there are only two words I can think of: good luck!

Yes I did mean sight gauges, the reading on the dial gauges I had changed just by switching the engines on!

My main point was how much fuel went into each engines tank when refuelling but as jfm pointed out ancilliary systems would have an effect on that so overall my suggestions were pointless!! I'll shut up.........I put it down to being happily, at the moment, boatless.....................

 

[MapisM]

overall my suggestions were pointless!! I'll shut up.........

Why? Actually the suggestion as such makes a lot of sense, if sight gauges are available (something I'm not sure about on F'rettis).
It's just not reliable to do that on the spot, but after marking the current sight gauges levels on both tanks, checking that pass-thru is left closed (something which many boaters don't do, just for the convenience of refilling from a single point), and using the boat for a while with no genset, that's probably the easier way to check if one engine really burns more.

 

[Bilgediver]

the rpm is measured from the ecm so there is no tacho to calibrate, if speed sensor was faulty its unlikely engine will start

In this case I go with the suggestion that the props are not accurately matched .

 

[Cloggy]

Fuel pump pressures equal?

One or more Injector needing attention?

Props are a real possible cause and need to be checked when out of the water -'cos its easier and drier than when its in!

 

[Hurricane]

Sat Dome is KVH Tracvision G4 which means nothing to me. Is that OK? $64k question is will I be able to watch England beat Italy in the World Cup Final in July whilst loafing on my boat?
Btw if this deal goes through, it looks like my stay in Sardinia is short lived as the F53 is based in N Adriatic and I'd certainly want to 'do' Istria and Dalmation Islands whilst I'm there

No - but you might be able to listen to it over BBC radio on the sat - if they are broadcasting.
Alternatively you will probably be able to receive News 24 and see the results afterwards!!!

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

1. What HOURs are on each engine? has one done more than the other - you dont say

2. Is there a exrtra piece of equipment on one of the engines, a high output alternator, hydraulic pump or similar that's not on the orther one?

3. Is the hot water calorifier connected to only one engine?

These are the sort of things I would look at to try and explain small differences like the ones you describe. WHY? Because the throttle opening of each engine is difficult to access, just because each engine is doing the same RPM it doesnt mean they are both producing the same amount of power. The differences in the power required from each engine to achieve the same RPM would explain the small differences in the reading you have obtained.

Marsupial to answer your questions

1. About 880hrs each side

2. No additional equipment that I can see on one side

3. Ferrettis don't have calorifiers. Strange I know but the only way you get hot water is via 240V

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Won't I get Sky from the Astra ? satellite in N Adriatic. I know Sardinia and Balearics are problematic for that satellite

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Why does material like that get said in PMs when this forum is about information sharing?

I completely agree your general point PY that differences should be in the order of 1-2 litres/hour. Engineers aren't so bad that they make engines 10% different

jfm, to be fair to PY, I have PM'd him in the past a couple of times because I know he has specific experience of the F53

 

[Nick_H]

Won't I get Sky from the Astra ? satellite in N Adriatic. I know Sardinia and Balearics are problematic for that satellite

Astra 2A channels are split between north and south beams, you'll get the south channels, but not the north, which includes BBC1 and ITV, and I guess WCF will be on BBC1. You can google for lists of channels on each. If you pay for Sky Sports on the boat, then maybe it'll be on Sky Sports 1 as well, can't remember if that's a south beam channel, but I think so.

If you can get it though, you might get some boxing thrown in for free, John Terry vs Wayne Bridge

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Mike, what speed did the boat reach at WOT?
2330 rpm and a load below 100% on both engines would lead to think that BOTH props are slightly short.
Anyway, I still think that the weird numbers are on port engine.
The "peak" at 2190 doesn't make sense. Regardless of whether the props are optimally tuned or not, the "prop demand" consumption curves MUST steadily increase, tending to match the "max power" consumption curves at WOT and max rpm.
Besides, even a rough multiplication of the rated max consumption (125 l/h @ 2300 with 100% load) by the 93% load of stbd engine gives exactly the 117 reported, whilst the same calculation on port engine gives 119, instead of the 101 reported.
I know that electronics are generally reliable these days, but if max speed is fine I would tend to think that there is simply a faulty consumption reading on port engine for some reason.
You might be interested to look at Cat specs for further details.

Thanks Mapism. It's early days yet in the sale process so I haven't been out on the boat myself yet. I'm told she does '30kts+' at WOT which, given that Ferretti quote 32kts in their data sounds about right. I also agree with you that there seems to be an anomaly between the load factor and the fuel consumption and the inconsistency of the diffrences to the s/b engine are odd. I'm beginning to think that there may have been a measurement issue

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Also check this out on those model engines with Cat prior to purchase as there were some probs with intercoolers and is public knowledge if you do a search!

This is a snippet from the internet:

I haven't yet seen the final class notice. Revision 2 of the class notice states: "You are receiving this notice because you have been identified as an individual or entity that has been an owner of a boat with a Caterpillar engine, including a 3196, C-12 or other Caterpillar engine, containing the aftercooler model numbers in issue".
"Plaintiff is pursuing this action on behalf of himself and all other persons who own or at any time owned a boat powered by a Caterpillar marine engine equipped with any version of aftercooler model/part numbers 138-2571, 161-9898, 210-5631, and 216-5147". Aftercooler serial number: 216-5147-04 is the latest of eight iterations.

Yes I'm aware of this. The engines in the F53 I'm looking at have had heat exchangers changed at about 600hrs

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Assuming the boat has seperate fuel tanks, is it worth asking the current owner if he keeps a log of how much fuel each tank takes when filling up? If its consistent with the data reading then its a real issue, if the amount of fuel per tank is similar its an instrument problem.

Alternatively look at the fuel tank gauges now (assuming not full). No-one part fills one tank so if they show a difference consistent with the 10% anomoly then it looks real

Apologies if this is too simplistic to be useful Mike but just ways that non techies like me would seek to verify the data.

Hi Meddie. It doesn't have separate fuel tanks. All Ferrettis I've seen, this one included, have a single fuel tank mounted amidships in front of the engines. Ferretti say that this is to ensure that the fuel load is stored as low in the hull as possible and that changes in fuel load don't affect the balance of the boat. Different philosophy to the Brit builders, I guess, who always seem to use twin tanks mounted outboard of the engines. On the F53 there is an additional day tank mounted further aft. Actually I'm not sure what the function of a day tank is. Praps somebody could explain? Anyway, whilst there are sight guages on both tanks, this fuel tank arrangement doesn't allow differential fuel consumption to show up between one engine and the other

 

[Hurricane]

The research and experience on satellite TV that I've done in the Med is:-

Astra is the main satellite constelation that carries channels that we are interested in.

As far as we (UK TV viewers) are concerned, Astra is split as follows:-

Astra North beam
Astra South beam
Astra 2D - UK focussed beam

Sky mainly transmit on the Astra North and South beams which cover the whole of Europe. So AFAIK virtually all the Sky channels should be available to you in either the Western Med or the Adriatic - even with the smaller 40cm dish.
The big issue that we all moan about is that BBC, ITV, Channel 4 and 5 only transmit on the Astra 2D UK beam. This is specifically focussed at the UK only and the signals get weak outside the beam so that by the time you get to the northern coasts of the Med, you need about a metre dia dish to receive the signals transmitted on Astra 2D.
The exception is BBC News 24 and all the BBC radio channels which transmit on Astra North and South beams.

Some examples that I've experienced -
BBC News available throughout the western Med - no problem in Malta.
(The Sky box had a problem picking up its program guide the further south we went but I also have a Dreambox which picked up News 24 wherever we went)
BBC Radio channels again throughout the western Med.
BBC1,2,3,4, Ch4,5 is just out of range at Sant Carles
But in Barcelona BBC1 (London) worked - didnt try any others.

Our dish is a 60cm Raymarine one (which incidentally I recon is slightly better than the KVH - I have some examples)

I should think it is possible (with the correct receiver) to receive BBC News 24 and the radio channels in the Med on a 40cm dish.

It does take a bit of setting up though.

Our's was working fine receiving BBC Radio 4 last October halfway between Mallorca and the Spanish mainland - SWMBO didnt want to miss The Archers!!!

 

[jfm]

jfm, to be fair to PY, I have PM'd him in the past a couple of times because I know he has specific experience of the F53

Noted, and PY mentioned that above. I apologise to you PY, for ranting at you

 

[jfm]

As far as we (UK TV viewers) are concerned, Astra is split as follows:-

Astra North beam
Astra South beam
Astra 2D - UK focussed beam

Sky mainly transmit on the Astra North and South beams which cover the whole of Europe. So AFAIK virtually all the Sky channels should be available to you in either the Western Med or the Adriatic - even with the smaller 40cm dish.
The big issue that we all moan about is that BBC, ITV, Channel 4 and 5 only transmit on the Astra 2D UK beam. This is specifically focussed at the UK only and the signals get weak outside the beam so that by the time you get to the northern coasts of the Med, you need about a metre dia dish to receive the signals transmitted on Astra 2D.

Yup, exactly. The astra map in Nick's post above can therefore be quite misleading. Landlubber Brits in sofF use 120cm/150cm dishes to get 2D beam, BBC etc. Boaters don't get it. I have a tiny 37cm dish becuase I needed light weight and it is fine for south beam but not north. That said, if you want news it picks up CNN and some other news channels very clearly. Not Bloomberg - that's on North beam

BTW, some big sports fixtures are broadcast live on iPlayer afaik so you can just watch them on 3G internet. I've used 3G a lot to watch BBC stuff and it works fine. Laptop connects to SVGA-in on the TV

 

[MapisM]

I've used 3G a lot to watch BBC stuff and it works fine.

Do tell! Via VPN tunnelling, or what? You'll surely use a 3G French provider (thus with a non-UK IP address) from SoF, dontcha?

 

[jfm]

Do tell! Via VPN tunnelling, or what? You'll surely use a 3G French provider (thus with a non-UK IP address) from SoF, dontcha?

Hmm, I dont know. Good question. I dont understnad IP addresses well. I use a UK 3G SIM card (Vodafone) and when in FRance I connect to SFR 3G (= the vodafone subsidiary in france) then connect to iPlayer and watch BBC. I dont know if iPlayer "sees" me as a UK viewer or French (???).

The data volume is high but I have a special roaming contract with a fixed £60/month for 200Mb/month of roaming with "fari use policy" occasional 1Gb/month roaming, plus unlimited UK use

 

[MapisM]

Now that's puzzling. iPlayer normally allows access only when the request comes from a client with a UK IP address.
Which means that the client must be connected through a UK provider, unless using some tricks as the VPN which I mentioned.
I can't understand how the fact that yours is a UK SIM can grant the access as such. I mean, obviously SFR 3G can recognise that you are a UK user, but the assigned IP address should be a French one anyway, so the BBC site should have no clue about whether you're a UK user or not....
Maybe some IT wizard will jump in and throw some light on that!

On a side note, I'm surprised to hear that you have reasonable data connection costs when roaming, thus avoiding to get a "local" SIM.
Though in Italy frinstance you can get a rechargeable SIM with 3GB/month data connection (unrestricted time), for as little as 5 Eur.
Worth considering even if your roaming costs are not too bad!

With apologies to Deleted User for the OT...