Diesel or petrol boat for Med. cruising?

[rustybarge]

'Harbours' in the Med? I don't know of any 'Harbours' which will welcome your Merry Fisher. Do you mean 'marinas'? I thought you said 'no marinas for me!'.

Or are you just planning to pop into the marina to buy another €200.00 worth of fuel before you zoom off again at 500 Db?

Nice troll.

Hoping to tie up with real boats in harbours, and there's still hundreds all over the Med ESP. In Greece etc., definitely avoiding the marinas.

By the way this is the live aboard section; am I getting the impression this is turning into a yottie/ mobo split?......by the way I've lived aboard for 10 years on a home built 60 ' steel barge on a river mooring, and I'd like to go to sea for the experience.

 

[chinita]

I don't see any split.

Just a few people trying to tell you the pitfalls.

If what you are apparently planning is do-able and such an attractive option then why aren't we all doing it?

 

[rustybarge]

I don't see any split.

Just a few people trying to tell you the pitfalls.

If what you are apparently planning is do-able and such an attractive option then why aren't we all doing it?

That's an interesting point.......it's all down to money, or the lack of.

Here's my budget: got refund from ex of £80k overpayment in div. settlement.
Planned trip: 2 years. Say £250/ wk food etc= c.£25k
Fuel at 2hrs day= £40/day about £30k
Boat purchase £15k

Yikes............it does add up quickly.

 

[westernman]

Diesel engines are more economical than petrol engines when comparing like to like. To a large extent this comes from the fact that the calorific value of diesel is higher than that of petrol - i.e. diesel containts more energy per litre than petrol. A modern petrol engine will be more efficient than an older one.

The difference in efficiency between an old diesel and a modern diesel is less than the difference between an old petrol engine and a modern one.
There is little difference in efficiency of modern diesel and petrol engines - however, remember that diesel fuel contains more energy per litre than petrol.

Almost everywhere (if not everywhere) in the med diesel is cheaper than petrol.

Also note that in almost everycase (excepting strong headwinds), miles per gallon is better the slower you go.

For economy (and comfort), if the wind is strong and in the wrong direction, wait until it changes. Usually at most a couple of days.

I think you need a diesel engine.

And maybe some sails as well????

 

[nortada]

I don't see any split.

Just a few people trying to tell you the pitfalls.

If what you are apparently planning is do-able and such an attractive option then why aren't we all doing it?

Chinita sums it all!

If it was such a good idea, we would regularly meet live-aboards cruising with in/outboard petrol engines - we don't.

 

[rustybarge]

Also note that in almost everycase (excepting strong headwinds), miles per gallon is better the slower you go.

For economy (and comfort), if the wind is strong and in the wrong direction, wait until it changes. Usually at most a couple of days.

I think you need a diesel engine.

And maybe some sails as well????

How about a motor sailer, well sort of. If you look at the Hardy pilot forum, a similar but old fashioned boat to the Merry Fisher, they have several for sale which have been converted to sail......(I hear groaning...not a real sail boat)

Maybe a large stay sail to use down wind....or a parasail on a small mast?

 

[westernman]

How about a motor sailer, well sort of. If you look at the Hardy pilot forum, a similar but old fashioned boat to the Merry Fisher, they have several for sale which have been converted to sail......(I hear groaning...not a real sail boat)

Maybe a large stay sail to use down wind....or a parasail on a small mast?

That is the first photo I have seen of a boat with a motoring cone

 

[rustybarge]

That is the first photo I have seen of a boat with a motoring cone

You have a point.....but it's always the Walter Mitty types who convert mobo's to sail, When the hull's not not designed for it.

But then there's lots of motor trawlers had mizzen sails to help them along down wind, so there's a long and proud tradition of 'assist sails' on classic displ. Mobo's.

This George Beulher long line steel trawler yacht has assist sails....looks hard core! Upwind....don't ask!



Maybe it's worth considering a super light carbon fibre unstayed mast as a stay sail?

 

[gavin_lacey]

Boats such as those you are describing are RCD cat C. In most european countries owners of such boats are restriced to 6miles from a safe haven and pretty calm conditions. Whilst not advocating a rigid adherence to such things for British boats it must give some food for thought. They are emphatically not suitable for cruising any distance. The last cat C boat I saw get caught out in F6-7 had to be dragged in by a fishing boat and was fined 1000euros in greece. The steering cable to the outboard broke when it slewed off a wave so Mayday. Anyone who has spent any time in the Med will have been caught out by sudden and unforecast weather. The idea that you can guaratee good weather by zooming along the coast is ludicrous.

 

[Mistroma]

Petrol will be harder to find than diesel, not impossible or even particularly hard, but sl. less easy to find.

Inherently safer to store large quantities of diesel rather than petrol. I doubt anyone will argue about that (we'll someone might, but not successfully).

Diesels were always thought to be more robust than petrol engines. Heavier, lower revs., unstressed, simpler. I doubt that all of the above apply nowadays with turbos, electronics etc. So possibly not much to choose.

On balance, I'd still stick with a diesel inboard.

However, might be worth widening the scope wrt search for a suitable boat. Just get the best one for your lifestyle. That might be MoBo or sailing boat (you don't actually need to use the sails).

Friends had a MF and it was a great boat but I think the cockpit & interior might become rather warm in the med. Not certain I'd be happy to be at anchor in really bad weather either. We were caught out in Cyclades several years back and had to anchor and also move to a small harbour for 2-3 days. I don't think we'd have been undamaged in a MF as conditions were extreme.

Just noticed that you mentioned a much smaller MF, theirs was an 8?? model.

 

[rustybarge]

Boats such as those you are describing are RCD cat C. In most european countries owners of such boats are restriced to 6miles from a safe haven and pretty calm conditions. Whilst not advocating a rigid adherence to such things for British boats it must give some food for thought. They are emphatically not suitable for cruising any distance. The last cat C boat I saw get caught out in F6-7 had to be dragged in by a fishing boat and was fined 1000euros in greece. The steering cable to the outboard broke when it slewed off a wave so Mayday. Anyone who has spent any time in the Med will have been caught out by sudden and unforecast weather. The idea that you can guaratee good weather by zooming along the coast is ludicrous.

Hi Gavin,

Port hopping is a tried and tested refuge for the cowards, like me! Remember on a small outboard semi- displ. Boat you can dash for shelter at 25 kts.

Here's a review of the MF 635 from a died in the wool yottie of 15 years standing, tested in 2 mtrs chop in the Solent........good enough for me.

"out in an October Force 5 last week, just atop the turn of the tide, about two miles off East- bourne UK. Going out in the two-metre swell was comfy, but coming back against the wind and tide took me up against a breaking 3 metre swell. The boat confidently powers through the green/grey stuff at 12 knots whereas my previous 21 foot planing boat would have been re- duced to wallowing around just on the hump, bringing big increases in fuel consumption and decreases in comfort"

http://jeanneau.tripod.com/HTMLobj-295/MF635.pdf

 

[BrianH]

Anyone who has spent any time in the Med will have been caught out by sudden and unforecast weather. The idea that you can guaratee good weather by zooming along the coast is ludicrous.

But he doesn't intend to just zoom along the coast, he plans on cruising "down through Corsica, Sardinia and Malta", which would entail long distances at sea and far from any refuge.

So I totally agree. To take such a craft offshore is indeed ludicrous, it is fit for sheltered waters only.

I have many friends in my marina with mobos larger than that being contemplated. When I get back after a cruise or day sail they ask me anxiously how high were the waves and when I remark hardly anything, less than a metre and that it had been a great sail, they shake their heads at the madness of someone being out there in such conditions.

 

[rustybarge]

But he doesn't intend to just zoom along the coast, he plans on cruising "down through Corsica, Sardinia and Malta", which would entail long distances at sea and far from any refuge.

So I totally agree. To take such a craft offshore is indeed ludicrous, it is fit for sheltered waters only.

I have many friends in my marina with mobos larger than that being contemplated. When I get back after a cruise or day sail they ask me anxiously how high were the waves and when I remark hardly anything, less than a metre and that it had been a great sail, they shake their heads at the madness of someone being out there in such conditions.

If you look at the charts, it's really just island hopping. Rather than Nice - Corsica direct (70nm), go via Italy, Elba etc, Although At twenty knots 70 nm is less than 4 hrs.

It's true, going offshore in any small boat is very very scary. What happens if the weather changes, yottie or Mobo. Thousands of boats are at the bottom of the Med. To prove it!

Here's another review by a bloke who went the whole way around Britain in a Merry Fisher 625 outboard....

Re: Round Britain in a Merry Fisher 625
SnaxMuppet
25 September 2009 12:27:24Joined: 25 September 2009 12:16:05 | Posts: 2
Hi Jason,

For the size this boat is superb. It handled very well in all the seas I encountered. I encountered seas up to 2m and although I had to slow down to 6 or 7 kts at times it handled it very well and I never felt near the edge. Much of the time the sea was about 1m and I had to slow to 14kts... it would only plane at normal cruising speed in calmish sea. Normal cruise was 18-20kts with the 115hp engine. I managed an average of about 1lt per mile almost regardless of the speed!

We have had the boat now for 2 1/2 years now and love it but we are giving up boating for a while as we are getting a touring caravan. We can't use both so our Merry Fisher 625 is now for sale! We will be advertising this weekend but if you are interested get in touch by email at "snaxmuppet at gmail dot co dot uk".

Paul Churchley

 

[JamesFrance]

I have usually spent more time motoring than sailing in the med and have chosen motorsailers in the past. Not some motorboat with a mizzen on the stern, which is just about cutting down on rolling, but a boat which will get you somewhere when the motor fails. I have twice needed to do that, once when an injector pipe burst near L'Aberwrach and again when a load of diesel was so dirty that it completely clogged the filters.

If you carry enough fuel in a small motorboat to get from say Syracuse to Malta, together with everything else you need for an extended cruise, your speed will suffer so much that you will probably run out of petrol or diesel half way across and 50 miles from safety.

 

[rustybarge]

I have usually spent more time motoring than sailing in the med and have chosen motorsailers in the past. Not some motorboat with a mizzen on the stern, which is just about cutting down on rolling, but a boat which will get you somewhere when the motor fails. I have twice needed to do that, once when an injector pipe burst near L'Aberwrach and again when a load of diesel was so dirty that it completely clogged the filters.

If you carry enough fuel in a small motorboat to get from say Syracuse to Malta, together with everything else you need for an extended cruise, your speed will suffer so much that you will probably run out of petrol or diesel half way across and 50 miles from safety.

Say the longest leg will be 100 nm, that's 100 ltrs plus 50% reserve=150 ltrs, that's @ 7 lbs a gallon = 233 lbs/106 kg.......thats the weight of one and a half very light people.

 

[Tranona]

Think you will find things very different from what you imagine is possible. Coast hopping on a shoestring is not as easy as you think. There are far fewer free anchorages than you imagine so you will be forced to use expensive marinas. While the boat may be tolerable for short hops expect you will find longer passages noisy and uncomfortable and night time passages very challenging. If you do get to anchor you will find the boat very uncomfortable as it will roll a lot. Space for living on is very limited even for one person.

As others have said these boats are designed for inshore daytime use and will not adapt to full time living for any period of time. Suspect you will also find it difficult, if not impossible to get insurance for offshore passages.

Boating in the Med is not a year round activity. The season runs from May to October. It is possible to live on board in the winter but you need to choose your location carefully. Looking at your budget and your objectives you might consider skipping the northern parts and going straight to Greece. You could easily buy a good 30 foot sailboat, probably ex charter for around £20k fully fitted for Med living and you will find Greece and Turkey much more attractive for economical living, including overwinter in places with a reasonable liveaboard community.

 

[TerryMac]

Are you serious? Or is this a great festive troll ;-)

 

[rustybarge]

Hi Tranona,
Thanks for the good advise.
One of the reasons for going at faster than displacement speeds, is to avoid night passages, and bad weather. Needless to say I didn't factor in the costs of marinas.....how long is a piece of string?

I totally agree with your comments about being anchored, and they way way small boats are constantly fidgeting, and trying to stay standing with the wake of passing boats.

But......better to have tried on a low budget....than never tried at all.

 

[gavin_lacey]

If you are determined to buy such a boat trhen use it in waters that are basically sheltered. People cruise the Ionion in ribs sleeping under the sunshades in the summer. Distances rarely exceed 20 miles. Offshore passages need 2 means of propulsion. If you carry a 6-8 hp outboard as your spare you also need fuel for it to cover more than half of any proposed trip. That is a lot of weight. Offshore boats have backup steering systems. Yours won't unless you substantially modify it. If you cruise the italian coasts in the summer you better put by a lot of money for marinas because with your limited range you will have to use them.

 

[Tranona]

But......better to have tried on a low budget....than never tried at all.

Maybe better to listen to people who have been there and done it rather than find out the hard way that your idea won't work!

You will find that if you are cruising for pleasure rather than on an endurance course, that you spend only 10-15% of the time actually on the move, so the difference in speed is not a big deal. Concentrate on what makes the other 85%+ enjoyable and doable! Explains why the overwhelming majority of cruisers in the Med choose sail (with a good motor), particularly if on a limited budget. Much more practical and versatile.