Diesel Fuel Performance

Thanks for filling in some detail. However I am surprised by 2 things. With Shell I am getting 10% more MPG and Shell here is 1p = 1% cheaper than the Tesco product. Honest John also found more than a 10% improvement. Is your supermarket fuel 10% cheaper?
 
Re: Additives ARE used ... who said not ????

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry but EU and International Specs .... EN590 for example mean that additives ARE added for various reasons .... >

Lubricity
CFPP
Cloud
Cetane

to name but a few ....

[/ QUOTE ]But not at the refinery dick head (avatar very apt) - read my post before you start criticising or correcting a correct post. Any additives will only be added later when the final destination/use of the fuel is determined.
God I hate these smart arses...
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"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"
 
Re: Ooooh errr!

in France and Italy 90% use heating fule in their cars and boats as it costs one third but heating fule has to have less pollution therfore, europeans save tax and creat less pollution in one!
 
Re: Ooooh errr!

in France and Italy 90% use heating fule in their cars and boats as it costs one third but heating fule has to have less pollution therfore, europeans save tax and creat less pollution in one! where can i find heating petrol for my outoard?
 
Re: Diesel supplies ....

Exactly - having worked in Distribution for one of the oil majors (though admittedly some years back now) I can confirm that this is indeed the case.

The economics of downstream marketing don't stack up any other way.
 
Re: Thank you, Nigel.

Does it show? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
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"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"
 
Re: Shell Optimax is petrol

The reason I happened to know that Optimax is petrol is:-
I have to use Optimax in my Volvo AQ110.
Although I've had the head converted to unleaded, retarding the ignition to prevent pinking reduced the performance so much, but using Optimax, which is 98 octane, I can run without retardig the ignition and get better performance.
 
Re: Additives ARE used ... who said not ????

Nigel - I'm not sure I understand the difference between gas oil and road diesel following your posts. Its all well and good correcting other posters who are wrong, but however much fun this is, it doesnt always add clarity.

So can we have a clear statement of the differences between gas oil and road fuel, and which to use for which generation of boat engine if cost doesnt determine the issue. Can an engine run more economically and with less soot using road fuel versus red?
 
Cliff .... I read your post a number of times ... >>

<<Unfortunately they don't add additional lubricants or anti scuff additives. Modern pumps and injectors were designed not to need the sulphur / lubrication but unfortunately you will have to have your pump and injectors overhauled / converted to use the ULS if you have an "older" engine or you will have to but the additives separately>>

As I read it - you basically said that later engines cater for ULS without additives and they are not added ... What I said and is true - as I do this work on regular basis - is that additives are added to ULS. Refinerys don't do it unless on specific contract as it costs them mnoney and they normally are selling to a trader who will then decide where its going ... that will then dictate how much additive I / competitors put

I am not being a 'smart-arse' - just replying to a post that reads slightly different to what you now say.

My reason for "correcting" your post was basically to stop anyone making an expensive mistake with any engine old or new ... you may be a wonderful engine guy - I don't know but I work with fuel everyday .... my lab tests fuel everyday .... I do additive evaluation and injection on regular basis for very well known Oil Company clients ....

So nuts ----

Oh - and my Avatar - you obviously have no idea what the initials mean ... so I will leave you in ignorance on that one !!!!
 
I do not advise on individual engines ... best ask Engine Service Dept

Why ... 'cause many are slightly different depending on market sold in to / age / model / Mk / version etc.

What I will say is that unless built / supplied for specialist work - MOST engines are happy on Red diesel .... and I'm told by my "guru" that later engines - basically since the ULS debate and product appeared on market - should be ok on ULS .... but BEST honest short answer is to ask the Service / Client Department of the engine people ...... they will also be able to say what mods you may need as well.

For me - I can run my old Perkins obviously - as I will just drop in the necessary extra additives to compensate ... but I'm lucky enough to have them ... later we may find them on the shelf - like the additives to cater for Veteran Gasoline cars etc.
 
Let me confuse you more ....

First - I do not correct for fun - I would prefer actually if I did not have to correct ..... but feel that information like fuel data is important .....
The trouble is that the fuel world is now so diverse and mixed that it is difficult now to know where one starts and another ends !! They are all being blended into each other at varying degrees.

So here we go >>>>>

They are ALL grades of Gasoil ..... Diesel is a name used after Mr. Diesel - who designed the 'Diesel' engine to run on gasoil !!

Red Diesel ........... UGH !! ........... is high sulphur Gasoil - similar to Light Heating oil, but often with a few additions to help in winter etc. It may have a few points increase in Cetane to help. Standard Gasoil is about -6 ... -8 C CFPP - which as boats are usually surrounded by water - the fuel rarely goes near that low temp in UK ... so may only have limited CFPP additive added.

ULSD is actually same gasoil with the sulphur 'washed' out in refinery before shipping out. This in turn gives it a slightly lower density. Once trader has decided which market it is going to - it has to be treated to suit the climatic conditions. Average ULSD before additives has CFPP of about -7 ... -9 C and for UK needs to be lowered to at least -15 C to meet EN590 spec. (Look on pump case in station next time and you will see this in winter .... -15 C EN590 etc.) The cloud pt is often traeted as well - as clients don't like seeing cloudy fuel !!

Cetane is often boosted as well. BUt the main additive AFTER CFPP - is Lubricity, which is added to bring the 'wear' factor of the fuel within tolerance ... This wear factor is more than standard Red Diesel by a small margin .... and this is what affects many engines - the sulphur content of Red being used as a sort of lubricant ....

ULSD - can easily be identified even with eyes closed ... it feels drier and has a slightly different odour.

Now onto the interesting bit .... Bio-diesel ... well many have heard about it and wonder when its coming .... Too late - you are already using some if you have a Diesel car ... (possibly) ... as some company's are already blending Bio-D into ULSD Forecourt diesels .... albeit low %ages ... There is a benefit from it ... as it is based on such base products as Rape-seed oil etc. for example - it has a lubricity factor of its own that helps.

So finally - yes ULSD will burn cleaner, less ash. Red will lubricate your old engine better. Marine engines are generally designed or suited to Red Diesel unless specifically detailed for another grade.

........
 
Re: Let me confuse you more ....

Hmmm.

I've learned something here! Unfortunately, probably too late though! our old 1989 BMW D12 single cylinder (apparently a re-badged "Hatz" german diesel) has always been run on forecourt diesel. This is because like others, I use so little each season that it's just easier for me to take it down in gallon cans and pour it in. I've been feeling smug about never having had diesel bug and knowing that my fuel is always "fresh". What I hadn't realised is that it probably won't have the lubricity the engine needs. While I can't say I've ever had a problem wit hthe injection pump or injector, the exhaust valve was burned quite badly a few seasons ago when I took the head off. I wonder if that has anything to do with it?

Also, for what it's worth, I work in the car industry and some manufacturers will let you use up to 20 or 30% biodiesel and still give you a warranty whilst others will only let you use 5%. One said we could use 100% on some of its models!
 
Ok, so now you have confused us more .....

..... what would I need to add to central heating oil to make it more similar to red diesel than it is already?

I buy it for home, and am dreading the price on the next load, but if red becomes fully taxed, then taking fuel from home to boat may be an option.
 
Re: Thank you, Nigel.

In France almost everyone drives a diesel car becouse heating oil costs less than a half (used to be one third) the pump price for auto diesel,there are never controls.
The same cars are driven with almost no oil changes for 20000kms+ or every 18months between

These cars are later found for sale with 300000+kms in awful condition and twice the price of a petrol powerd car with less than half the kms i even saw a citrone xm estate with 530,000kms 1996 1800 euros!!!!!

The question is if these cars are driven so long with heating fuel and are still running are car diesels better qualty than marine ones? or is heating fule better qualty than marine diesel?

an i fit a car diesel to a marine inverter? could i just take my volvo MD32 out and drop it over board and replace it with a small peugeot mercedies 4 cylinder car diesel??will it just plug in the the hydralic box???
 
Re: FBYC

[ QUOTE ]
Oh - and my Avatar - you obviously have no idea what the initials mean ... so I will leave you in ignorance on that one !!!!

[/ QUOTE ]Well you know what they say - ignorance is bliss -

Flounder Bay YC
Fishing Bay YC
Frenchman's Bay YC
FrostBite YC
False Bay YC
Fishguard Bay YC to name but a few then there is my favourite.........
Fray Bentos YC - seems appropriate - both are full of little bits of crap. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
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"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"
 
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