Diesel fuel feed pump for old engine - help !!

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ErikBenson

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I have a Coventry Climax Godiva KF4 engine and someone has previously blanked off the mechanical feed pump, obviously to fit an electric one. As I cannot source an original - pump ( 'David' - Type P.12A. Mark 1B ) can you suggest what i should do, or recommend a modern electrical one . . . I really need to get this engine running. !!
Cheers. . .Erik
 
ErikBenson said:
I have a Coventry Climax Godiva KF4 engine and someone has previously blanked off the mechanical feed pump, obviously to fit an electric one. As I cannot source an original - pump ( 'David' - Type P.12A. Mark 1B ) can you suggest what i should do, or recommend a modern electrical one . . . I really need to get this engine running. !!
Cheers. . .Erik
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WOW!!! Someone else with a Coventry Godiva (ours is the CDB 4 cylinder 30HP with hydraulic gearbox). I can't help directly with the pump I'm afraid, but in 2002 I did find Lucas very helpful when I had a problem after running out of fuel. I'm sure that they could suggest a suitable electrical alternative.

Bits for the old Coventry engines are a nightmare, no doubt about that. If it helps you (only for future reference if required) I've found a company in Hull that can re-manufacture things like head gaskets etc.

If you don't mind me asking, whats the spec of your engine?

Good luck, Stu
 
Thanks for the ideas. . .First. . .the KF4 is going into my ex RN 1953 Fast Motor Dinghy, when I can get it running. It was running before I bought it I am reassured. However. . .I'd like to make sure before I offer it up though. I was lucky enough to actually find an original engine which is really amazing.
East of Scotland man. . .I used to live in Haddington. . .now in Cognac - France. . .maybe the wrong place for a boat like this !
I am not familiar with diesel engines so need all the advice I can get . From the ebay lists. . I suppose just a 6 - 9 psi pump should be enough ?
cheers. . .Erik
 
I think I can help based on a similar problem. I have 2 Ford Mermaid diesels, the port engine kept stopping due to a faulty lift pump cam. I bought a "generic 12 v lift pump on Ebay for £35, It is wired via the ignition switch. It delivers diesel from the tank via a double primary filter, pumps in through an other double filter to the injection pump. This 12 v pump, has max head of 6 feet, with a max throughput of 100 litres per hour. Its max pressure is 6 psi. Should provide an effective solution to your problem
 
Thanks for that , and i can obviously buy one on ebay. . .I just wonder how it copes with different engine speeds . Could be that the injector pump does that ? i suppose , just fit one and find out !
Cheers. . .Erik
 
ErikBenson said:
Thanks for the ideas. . .First. . .the KF4 is going into my ex RN 1953 Fast Motor Dinghy, when I can get it running. It was running before I bought it I am reassured. However. . .I'd like to make sure before I offer it up though. I was lucky enough to actually find an original engine which is really amazing.
East of Scotland man. . .I used to live in Haddington. . .now in Cognac - France. . .maybe the wrong place for a boat like this !
I am not familiar with diesel engines so need all the advice I can get . From the ebay lists. . I suppose just a 6 - 9 psi pump should be enough ?
cheers. . .Erik
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Yes 6 -9 psi is fine and I d go any of the foot mounted. Beware as some of these pumps are designed for in tank mounting so go for one with a hose inlet and outlet.

Haddington is a nice wee market town and The Watersdie is on an up again I believe :)
 
Bilgediver said:
Yes 6 -9 psi is fine and I d go any of the foot mounted. Beware as some of these pumps are designed for in tank mounting so go for one with a hose inlet and outlet.

Haddington is a nice wee market town and The Watersdie is on an up again I believe :)
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Bilgediver is spot on, think the KF4 had Simms or CAV inline pump which will certainly not like having 15 psi banged into it by modern lift pump, even if you could fund correct cam foot profile, 6-9 psi is just fine.
 
If you think of the old BMC cars which ere fitted with electric petrol pumps, a sample of which I have and was used as a diesel lift pump, the pump varies in its delivery dependent on the amount of fuel which the injector pump is using. .
On the car the pump used to click like crazy when the car was going round a corner with the tank empty.
 
Diesel fuel feed pump for old engine -- help !

This is great guys ! Ok 6 - 9 psi it is. The next thing I am told is that I should have all the injectors and governor serviced as if is sticks on full throttle it can explode the engine. . . .
what the f--- ? I just build racing petrol engines . .this is scary !

Yes . . Haddington. . .ain't what it was my friend . . .I restored Clerkington Mill in the mid 1960s. . . I could turn our MK8 Jag around in the High Street and park it anywhere. I even participated in a Street race there in 1967 !
Whasappinen?
Cheers. . .Erik
 
Personally I would be relaxed about the pump and injectors.

I doubt if anybody has specs for the injectors and where you would go for new tips.....All pump shop can do is a pop test, and engine will TELL you if squirters are poorly.

Digging back in memory bank but many engines of this era had throttle governing, once again finding a pump shop with data for KF4 will not be easy, they will love to take money off you for fishing expidition. Relax fire the old donk up, running away is least of your troubles, they can be a real pig to start!

Suggest you use a specific two stroke straight weight diesel lube such as Shell Rotella 40T, plenty of Detroit strokers operating in France so supplies should not be too big a deal. Avoid use of multigrade or sythetics in this engine at all costs.
 
ErikBenson said:
This is great guys ! Ok 6 - 9 psi it is. The next thing I am told is that I should have all the injectors and governor serviced as if is sticks on full throttle it can explode the engine. . . .
what the f--- ? I just build racing petrol engines . .this is scary !
.Erik
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Eric if you built engines then just a pointer for you here.

It seems your engine could be a 2 stroke of uncertain age and has some one else mentions overspeed may not be a fuel issue...It could be runaway due to oil dilution in the sump and this may be why the lift pump was removed.

Make sure the oil in the sump is clean and oil free and consider trying to get new piston rings especially oil control and hone the liners to reduce the chance of excess oil consumption. In the event of runaway do not declutch and snuff out by closing the air inlet off.

If it is a fuel problem then it could be a governor issue or just a stuck rack on a gummy fuel pump. This can be freed by removing the pump and liberally washing in the rack area with a mixture of engine oil and diesel oil and working the rack to and fro. That is if your pump has a normal helix type fuel pump.

A good injector shop CAN service injectors using laps and needle grinders etc but you might have difficulty finding one which is more than a parts replacement shop.

I can lead you through this process if needs be as it is not rocket science but you need a good eye....diamond lapping compound....and seat and needle laps. or a needle grinder. and a borescope :) :) Just ask at your diesel shop!

I used to do it when mid Pacific with no local service centre but when in port I d hand them over to Bosh...Yokohama Engineering or Fred Holmes Fuel Injection depending which side of the Pacific.
 
Bilgediver said:
Eric if you built engines then just a pointer for you here.

It seems your engine could be a 2 stroke of uncertain age and has some one else mentions overspeed may not be a fuel issue...It could be runaway due to oil dilution in the sump and this may be why the lift pump was removed.

Make sure the oil in the sump is clean and oil free and consider trying to get new piston rings especially oil control and hone the liners to reduce the chance of excess oil consumption. In the event of runaway do not declutch and snuff out by closing the air inlet off.

If it is a fuel problem then it could be a governor issue or just a stuck rack on a gummy fuel pump. This can be freed by removing the pump and liberally washing in the rack area with a mixture of engine oil and diesel oil and working the rack to and fro. That is if your pump has a normal helix type fuel pump.

A good injector shop CAN service injectors using laps and needle grinders etc but you might have difficulty finding one which is more than a parts replacement shop.

I can lead you through this process if needs be as it is not rocket science but you need a good eye....diamond lapping compound....and seat and needle laps. or a needle grinder. and a borescope :) :) Just ask at your diesel shop!

I used to do it when mid Pacific with no local service centre but when in port I d hand them over to Bosh...Yokohama Engineering or Fred Holmes Fuel Injection depending which side of the Pacific.
Click to expand...

Hah the happy hours as an apprentice, splodging a blob of jeweller's rouge on't injector tip and spinning away till't shiny and discoloured bits were gone and thee tip of the forefinger and thumb were bleeding.

The frustration of setting the break pressure on thee CAV inj tester to around 185 -200 bar and hoping that locking up the lock ring ring wouldn't alter it out of spec. Then realising that you forgot to put copper washer under the ring.

The trepidation of the spray pattern test and the delight in the squeal of the needle flutter when it passed. Then realising that you forgot to close the choke valve on the gauge and looking with trepidation at the needle to see if it spun on its shaft.

Finally, hold it just under break pressure for 20 seconds or so, release the pressure and dab the nozzle with a tissue. Bugger, its a dribbler, back to square one.

EEE grand old days they were back in the 80s, coughing your guts out cos the tester exhaust fan didn't work.
 
Me again ! Back after 3 years !! The boat restoration is now finished,( 7 years in all ) and we are about to have a go at the first launch in decades ! I fitted a Facet pump and it all goes well. . . there is a bit of 'hunting' at low speeds, but maybe I will have to get used to that. The original mechanical pump wasn't with the engine, and the " Self-Priming Pump Company" doesn't seem to be around any more. I do have a picture, but that's all. . . .it worked by a spring-loaded plunger off the fuel injection pump driving shaft. and is mounted by 6 long set screws/bolts.
Where should I try to find such a thing. Apart from this. . .the boat is totally as original now, and looking splendid.
Help !!
 
the original ac delco book lists lift pump numbers as 1524757 for the years 1951 / 54 which had a bd2 repair kit or from 1950 / 58 1524535 there is an early engine 1938 / 54 1524232 bd2 repair kit
the max fuel pressure of these pumps is around 2 3/4 psi

cheers
mick
 
ErikBenson said:
Me again ! Back after 3 years !! The boat restoration is now finished,( 7 years in all ) and we are about to have a go at the first launch in decades ! I fitted a Facet pump and it all goes well. . . there is a bit of 'hunting' at low speeds, but maybe I will have to get used to that. The original mechanical pump wasn't with the engine, and the " Self-Priming Pump Company" doesn't seem to be around any more. I do have a picture, but that's all. . . .it worked by a spring-loaded plunger off the fuel injection pump driving shaft. and is mounted by 6 long set screws/bolts.
Where should I try to find such a thing. Apart from this. . .the boat is totally as original now, and looking splendid.
Help !!
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Well done Eric....Brought back many memories reading that. :)
 
Diel fuel feed pump

Thanks Bilge Diver,
We hope to bring her over to the Holy Loch in August for a holiday with pals there - ( www.themajesticline.com) and practice time with 'Dragonfly'. . . Cognac- Zeebrugge- Rosyth. . . no English roads! Actually I think the problem with the feed pump got confused with the fuel injection pump. Another learning curve coming up !
Here she isFinished with cabin 2.jpg The cabin is restored too but we will tow with the tonneau covers I made. . .and keep the cabin in the back of the Jeep for photo shoots
cheers. . .Erik
 

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