Diesel bug in Brighton marina?

[BrendanS]

Having re-fuelled yesterday and adding Grotamar as usual to keep the tanks at the proper preventative concentration it was interesting to read in Brendan's post that "biocides won't necessarily stop diesel bug growing".

Is there any experience on the forum of using a biocide consistently and correctly and still getting the bug?




Harpsden

Just like bacteria in humans which develop antibiotic resistance, the bugs which cause diesel bug, can develop resistance to certain biocides used in fuel treatment. This can either be generic, or specific to your tanks. So if you use the same biocide, over time, you are propogating a strain of bug which is resistant to that biocide. Shock treatments with a different biocide (different active chemical, not just same one with a different trade name) could help. I've never seen any detailed work on boat diesel and biocides, though there probably is some, but microbial biocide effects are well understood, and resistance to continued use of the same biocide will undoubtably create strains which are resistant, over time

There is a possibility that treatments such as Soltron which break down the 'gum' which stick the bugs together in a big mess, which clogs the filter, may be less likely to suffer from resistance, as they don't affect the growth of the bugs, so much as break down the mass into fine particles which will pass through the filter and get destroyed in the combustion process.

Never managed to get enough info on this to be certain, but it does seem possible.

 

[whisper]

Hi sorry to hear of your troubles, I did a post on 22/07/09 about diesel bug might be of some help to you. The product might not have been for treating the bug but for helping to prevent it. It could have been an underlying problem that's just got worst. All the best. 2 products that are highley rated are GrotaMar71 and Marine 16.

David

Interestingly we've been using Marine 16 for just over a year. Filled the tank up a couple of days ago and poured the M 16 into a measuring cup. Lo and behold, floating in the cup was a brown amoeba like object about 10mm in diam.
Looked into M 16 bottle and there were more such "creatures" in there. Surely this can't be "the bug" can it. I thought the stuff was meant to prevent it, not encourage it.

Emailed M 16 mfrs and got no response.

 

[whisper]

Never thought brendon would come to my aid.

I've had the bug three or four times, though not for the last five years. You cant tell you've got it, till one day it blocks the filters. Removal method has always been Soltron, miles and miles Soltron, new filters, miles and miles, soltron. I could have swore I got one lot from Padstow, as the boat slowed down after that fill up. But it never had time to block the filters, did it.

Like you we religiously used Soltron for 5 yrs and then suddenly got "the bug". Further doseage made no difference. You sold it me under false pretences!!!
We changed to Marine 16, with interesting results.

 

[David of Essex]

Whisper that's the sort of horror story no one wants to hear. Have you taken this up with MBM its in all our interests.
David

 

[Freebee]

worth mentioning

That the spores that grow into fuel bugs can be airborne as well as in the fuel. hence when engines are run and fuel consumed the spores can enter via tank breathers. They like to eat the carbon from the fuel but live in the water bottoms of fuel tanks. Its ammatter of housekeeping keep the tanks water free,well topped up with biocide and you should be mostly bug free.

 

[BrendanS]

That the spores that grow into fuel bugs can be airborne as well as in the fuel. hence when engines are run and fuel consumed the spores can enter via tank breathers. They like to eat the carbon from the fuel but live in the water bottoms of fuel tanks. Its ammatter of housekeeping keep the tanks water free,well topped up with biocide and you should be mostly bug free.

As I've mentioned previously on this thread, not all diesel bugs are the same, so not all are sporing (typically sporing is from fungal contaminant, not bacterial), and not all live on diesel water interface, and will grow quite happily in the diesel alone

 

[Freebee]

As I've mentioned previously on this thread, not all diesel bugs are the same, so not all are sporing (typically sporing is from fungal contaminant, not bacterial), and not all live on diesel water interface, and will grow quite happily in the diesel alone

Of course as has been stated they can grow in the diesel alone because diesel will contain disolved water, up to 80 or 100 ppm (parts per million) dependant on the temperature.

 

[whisper]

Whisper that's the sort of horror story no one wants to hear. Have you taken this up with MBM its in all our interests.
David

I'm not sure what MBM would do with it. As yet it's not prevented us from using the boat - the "infection" hasn't been too bad ( oh how I wish I hadn't said that )!!

Was really surprised at the contents of the Marine 16 bottle though, along with the lack of response from them.

 

[David of Essex]

Hi Whisper if the bottle contents are infected and you have not had a reply from the manufacturers then perhaps MBM could take it up.
David
ps glad you are able to use the boat, keep your fingers crossed.

 

[whisper]

Thanks David.
I'll try the manufacturer/agent again. Unfortunately the evidence is in Devon and I'm in S on A at the moment.
I suppose it is possible that the stuff has a shelf life, but that wouldn't make it much use to "raggies" would it.

 

[Bilgediver]

We got it!!

The marina say they are clean, not a single other complaint etc. etc.

Anyone else heard of the bug in Brighton??

Could be as much your fault as the supplier. Were your tanks free of water when you took fuel? Did you drain out water after taking fuel

To get bugs you just need to and need an unhealthy water fuel intetrface as the bugs love this and it seems you are providing just this. Find a way of getting rid of water from the bottom of the tank and dose with a god bug treatment.

If the fuel is heavily contaminated you might need to polish it through a filter.

 

[hlb]

Bilgediver, be careful, I was accused of being argumentative. Because I did not believe how the engineers could know it was clear, as the boat had not been anywhere.

Proved right eventually, but I'll be carefull about offering advice again.

 

[AdeOlly]

We got it!!
Just before the duty went up last year we filled up and applied the additive that Feltons (Volvo agent) sell (Cant remember what it was)
Hardly used the boat all winter so tanks stayed full'ish.
In the spring got Feltons in to do a check over including dropping the primary fuel filters for inspection to make sure no bug. Everything ok on both engines.
Filled up both tanks at Brighton Marina about five weeks ago and now have very bad contamination in one tank and mild contamination in the other. Boat been out for work over the last 2/3 weeks so not used.
So all we have done fuel related in the last eight months or so is fill up in Brighton and now we are bug infested.

The marina say they are clean, not a single other complaint etc. etc.

Anyone else heard of the bug in Brighton??

How many other ways of getting it other than taking on contaminated fuel.

Interesting that my tank that has very mild bug is the one we topped up first and my tank with really bad contamination is the one we filled second, almost as if it was getting to the bottom of the marina tank. Marina say they never get to the bottom of the tanks before re-fueling every week. Strange as in the past they have run out of fuel alltogther a few times!!

Any ideas or comments

Mate of mine based in Brighton has recently had the bug, and he's only filled there since the end of last year. Don't think he complained to the marina about it as it was only the port tank that was affected, so his bug was probably home grown.

 

[aquapower]

diesel bug

There seems to be a lot of infected tanks this summer, like swine flu for boats!

 

[blueglass]

higher temperatures out here in the med make diesel bug something of a regular issue. I have found it difficult to eradicate completely and have learnt to live with mild contamination. It frequently appears in my primary filters (water separators) which are easily cleaned up but rarely makes it as far as the secondary filters which are usually completely clear at annual service time. (replaced anyway) Confusingly , although the slimy sludge is present, I have never at any time found water present in the separator, which as far as I understand, is a prerequisite for bug growth.
Have just changed from soltron to marine 16 to see if this helps. incidentally it was PBO who did the test on treatments a while back and marine 16 have copy on their website (not surprisingly, as they came out very well).

 

[Wino]

Diesel Bug

A few years ago I found the bug in in one of our compressors, tracked back and found it in our storage tank - about 10,000 litres.
An old guy who worked for me said he had previous experience of it and told me to Jeyes Fluid
It worked and we had no further trouble.
However I have not had the nerve to use it in my boat's tanks

 

[GerryM]

Diesel Bug

If you think of Diesel Bug infecting a boat engine in the same way that a bacterial infection affects humans you get a good idea of how it behaves.
To date a total of 27 different types of bacteria, yeasts and fungii have been found growing in diesel.

These are grouped into two classes - anaerobic (which require oxygen for growth) and anaerobic (sulphur reducing) which produce hydrogen sulphide. This latter type will produce sulphuric acids when moisture is present and will happily corrode injectors and nozzles.

Pinpointing exactly where the bug comes from can be difficult as all that is needed are diesel+water+air with mother nature supplying the rest. It's also doubtful if there's any real benefit in finding out where you caught it - it's like trying to find out who gave you the flu. Also, the speed with which the bug grows can vary greatly - from overnight up to weeks.

Biocides are not always the answer.
There are two big drawbacks - firstly the bug stays in the tank and sinks to the bottom after it dies. If the fuel level drops low enough or if the boat is in rough seas the dead bug will get shaken back into solution from where it gets into the fuel filters and now we have dead bug blocking the filters instead of live bug.
Secondly as BrendanS said the bacteria develops biocide immunity exactly the same way as humans can develop antibiotic immunity. (Or rather the way that bacteria that infect humans develop antibiotic immunity)

Fuel polishing doesn't work all the time either since internal tank baffles provide the perfect hiding place for the bug to 'shelter behind' - I've even heard of people cutting the top off the fuel tank to get at every nook and cranny in an attempt to root out the bug.

An alternative is a magnetic decontaminator like a De-Bug unit. This works by subjecting the bug to the equivalent of an 'alternating' magnetic flux as the fuel is pumped through. Bugs don't like magnets ! The magnetic flux causes individual cells to rupture into submicron particles which are small enough to pass through the filter and into the engine where they are burnt. There's no residue left behind and in the case of common rail engines there is a constant supply of sterilised fuel going back into the tank. Bye Bye Bug !

 

[whisper]

Interestingly we've been using Marine 16 for just over a year. Filled the tank up a couple of days ago and poured the M 16 into a measuring cup. Lo and behold, floating in the cup was a brown amoeba like object about 10mm in diam.
Looked into M 16 bottle and there were more such "creatures" in there. Surely this can't be "the bug" can it. I thought the stuff was meant to prevent it, not encourage it.

Emailed M 16 mfrs and got no response.

Got through to them yesterday - by phone. Reply was approx:-
"Ah, yes, I'm afraid that there have been brown objects discovered in the product. It is harmless and they are small pieces of cardboard. Your filters will catch them!!"

 

[BrendanS]

An alternative is a magnetic decontaminator like a De-Bug unit. This works by subjecting the bug to the equivalent of an 'alternating' magnetic flux as the fuel is pumped through. Bugs don't like magnets !

I've yet to see any magnetic field provided by a device small enough to fit into a boat without some pretty interesting physics and engineering, that would have a powerful enough field to even marginally affect a bacterial or fungal cell wall. Given that the bug would be passing at a rate of knots past the device in the fuel, the effect would be even less.

Lab tests on bacteria growing in magnetic fields have shown that even very intense fields, with superconducting magnets, or NMR, have little effect on cell growth, and certainly don't blast cells in to particles.

 

[John100156]

I've yet to see any magnetic field provided by a device small enough to fit into a boat without some pretty interesting physics and engineering, that would have a powerful enough field to even marginally affect a bacterial or fungal cell wall. Given that the bug would be passing at a rate of knots past the device in the fuel, the effect would be even less.

Lab tests on bacteria growing in magnetic fields have shown that even very intense fields, with superconducting magnets, or NMR, have little effect on cell growth, and certainly don't blast cells in to particles.

I agree with this, otherwise passing people through MRI's could have devastating side effects.

But what about a clear section of fuel feed pipe exposed to ultraviolet light? Could this not be beneficial, would it not interfere with the DNA of the bacteria? You could enlarge the pipe dia through the chamber to reduce resistance to flow which would also reduce the velocity? Just a thought that popped into my head! Would exposure to UV adversely affect the diesel?