Delta anchor, genuine or not?

From memory I think you're right and that most of the "veering" reports did involve RIBs, but I'm not sure why that would make it irrelevant.

I do agree entirely that the RNLI's use of anchors is very different from yachts: the latter mostly anchor for lunch or overnight stops, and I don't think the RNLI do either very often!
 
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I do agree entirely that the RNLI's use of anchors is very different from yachts: the latter mostly anchor for lunch or overnight stops, and I don't think the RNLI do either very often

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RIBS don't tend to weigh as much as a yacht. Their snubbing characteristics are probably very different. They probably aren't coping with tide changing with the veering caused by deep keel in a tideway, and change in direction of pull. I suspect they may not be using using so much chain as most yachts would. etc.
 
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The Delta was on the 12th position with the following comments:" <span style="color:brown"> Rolled on side, came loose and duck back in - How far moved before reset: 5' </span> -"

[/ QUOTE ] I haven't seen that test. How did the Delta compare with the CQR?
 
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<span style="color:blue"> I haven't seen that test. How did the Delta compare with the CQR? </span>

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I believe you can find it on www.practical-sailor.com

The CQR was in 15th position:
- "Rolled out on hinged arm, but dug back in

- How far moved before reset: 9'
 
Are we not once again we're getting caught-up in a lot of nonsense about tests and conditions that 99% of us won't replicate in a lifetime?? What's important for me (and most of you) is that the anchor sets easily in the sea beds I frequent, resets when it has to, and isn't a bugger to get up in a hurry when you need to!! Who the hell cares whether it resets in 5 foot or 9 foot!

To answer Gandy's question...27ft

And my mate who has sailed his Sadler 34 to Turkey in the past few years has a Delta on the bow. In a previous life he was an RNLI coxwain. I trust his judgement that this is not a bad anchor to have hanging on the front...and from my more limited experience, I agree. Nothing against CQRs as such, they just don't suit me and my sailing grounds quite as well.
 
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<span style="color:blue"> Who the hell cares whether it resets in 5 foot or 9 foot! </span>


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Are you really talking seriously??

If I would like to buy a new anchor, I will only select the one that didn’t move at all..

If, during a test.. or in real situation, your anchor break free, you are never sure that it will dig in and hold again.. 5 foot or 9 foot!

The longest way the anchor will need to reset is a clear indication of its ability to reset.. either 5’ or 9’ is far too long for me!

Who the hell cares whether it resets in 5 foot or 9 foot?: - every <span style="color:red"> serious sailor </span> ! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 
Reading my last post again, I see the confusion. My reaction was to rating anchors according to whether they took 5' or 9' in a TEST.

"If I would like to buy a new anchor, I will only select the one that didn’t move at all.."

Well what anchor do you use, and how did it do in the test? Has it ever given you cause for concern in real-life situation? And will you change it when the next "test" says it breaks out? Get my point...?

These tests don't in my opinion mean much in the real world. For example, what was the angle of pull? How quickly was the direction reversed? etc, etc. In reality tides change slowly...wind shifts are usually gradual as well. With chain on the bottom don't most anchors have the time to reset properly without breaking out, and that's why most of us don't have problems in spite of what these "tests" say? If my anchor holds immediately, then it's likely to reset immediately. If it doesn't set easily, I move on. If this happens often then maybe I think about the type of anchor I'm using...or my technique!

I believe that is a more seamanlike way of going about things, rather than basing one's judgement on a test?
 
One of the interest of anchors test is that all anchors are tested in the same way ( same bottom – same scope – same speed – etc…) and real-life or not.. it is the only way to make a valid comparison between different products..

Later on, on the “ real world” all these parameters will vary and it will not be possible to make comparisons..

Tests are a well recognized practice in the Industry.. Will you accept to use a medication, that has not been fully tested?? Even in a non fully “real world” situation?

The anchor I use ( <span style="color:red">*</span> ) , came out first in this test: - “ <span style="color:brown"> Aligned to new pull with little movement” – How far moved before reset: 0’ 0”. </span> "

Here in Brasil, they are few harbours and marinas.. we are used to anchor in river mouths.. with reverse STRONG currents at each tide.. and the test results have long been confirmed in “real Life” anchoring..

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<span style="color:blue"> will you change it when the next "test" says it breaks out </span> ?

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No risks! as, since more than 10 years that I’ve used it, nearly all tests put it in the first or very close to the first position..

In “real life” I have had several occasions to see boats breaking their anchors free following a wind shift.

<span style="color:blue"> http//www.Idonotsellanyanchor.co.uk </span>

( <span style="color:red">*</span> ) and that I’ve designed
 
I really didn't want to but....


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Its unlikely that whatever caused the breakage to the Delta in the photo would have left yours unscathed. To claim a Rocna would is pure bull $h1t!

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Unfortunatly you are wrong in this specific case. The anchor in the photo did that on it's 2nd anchoring on a boat way to small. The anchor was spec'ed up a few sizes due to the nature of it's job, reserch. Deltas do have a specific point where it loads up massive and if there is any manufacturing flaw in that very small spot things like this will and have happened. The anchor in the photo must have been just a lemon though, they happen. Your sentance before that was spot on though.

Note: The anchor in the photo was replaced without question or any cost.

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In my opinion a 10kg Delta would be a worth-while upgrade, but a 10kg Chinese copy wouldn't.

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Don't want a chinese anchor so will buy a chinese anchor instead? Why am I confused? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

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You might find the genuine Deltas are made in China these days (everything else is !!)

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Replace 'You might' with 'You will' and you're spot on.

Re Tests: Yes that's all they are and are next to impossible to replicate total real life anchoring. BUT they do show small sections of real life performance depending on what you're actually testing for. We test often but for only one or a couple of specific things i.e max holding in a specific bottom type, how well they veer, how well they set and things like that. As someone said earlier (Alain I think) we do learn a lot by lining a pile up and doing what we do. No it doesn't give us total real life performance but does give very good data on specific things and comparisions. Do enough and you can really learn a lot of good info and find flaws. From the data we can extrapolate a bit more to get a better picture. Combine that from our field testing, we have a few boats using anchors in real life as part of our test programme and you can get a good picture of what is good where or when and so on.

Just chucking one over the stern and pulling only gives you info on that one specific bottom at that specific time. Do that type of test in say 4 times in 12 bottoms over 6 months and the data would be more usable.

And the last thing. It's just not an anchor that hold the boat, anyone who thinks that should sell their boat now and take up mountian climbing or something. The rode behind it has a huge baring on how the whole system works, huge. It is also damn near impossible to get good anchor info from forums like this.

"Yes my XX anchor is good and I'd never use anything else", actually tells us not much. Is it good because it has 20mm chain and 40mm rope behind it or is it good because the user does actually know how to anchor well or is it actually just a good anchor? We just don't know.

We often get people saying their anchor is crap and they want a differant one. When we suss further we find the anchor actually is a good design and the right size area. So whats wrong? At the moment a common one here is the boat came in from the US and has an anchor rode about the same size as garden string (it's just a US thing and common). So we leave the anchor and swap the rode to match the anchor. Low and behold the 'crappy anchor' now is a bloody legend.

Talk Anchor Systems people.

I have a XX anchor with YY behind it and it is good/bad/ugly/whatever would make forums like this a massive amount more usable for all.

And the last last /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
The sticker on the Delta will come off over time so it is quite possible the anchor is genuine even without it.
 
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I really didn't want to but...

[/ QUOTE ]C'mon you're not fooling anyone /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

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Don't want a chinese anchor so will buy a chinese anchor instead? Why am I confused? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]Well they might both be made in China, but at least one is an original design.

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The sticker on the Delta will come off over time so it is quite possible the anchor is genuine even without it.

[/ QUOTE ]Quite true but I think even the earliest Simpson Lawrence models had the details cast into the underside of the tip, yes?

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Talk Anchor Systems people.

[/ QUOTE ]Anchor Systems. For the people.
 
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