Delivery skippers

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Henery

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Hello all.
I am new to the forum and have been boating only a few years. I have a couple of questions to put to the panel with regards professional delivery skippers.
I would like to take this path but I have conflicting information about what,if any,recognized qualifications are required to become a delivery skipper. I have power boat level 1.

The other question is what sort of fees are delivery skippers getting,day rates or hourly rates.

and lastly is it worth doing at all?

Thanks
 
If you are just deliv skipper and there are no paying passengers on board then the qualifications are whatever you and your customer agree. A customer is free to hire you with only PB1 if he/she wants afaik

All that said, insurance company might well stipulate Commercial YM. Either the boat insurer's or your PI. And to get any serious amount of business, applying common sense, you need Commercial YM, else who is going to hire you? Would you hire you with only PB1? And just generally it would be wise to get your knowledge up to Commercial YM before going to sea in lots of different customers' boats

So the legal answer is none and the sensible pragmatic answer is Comm YM

I have no idea about fees etc but others on here are expert in all that
 
Much as JFM state's, no legal requirement but reality is without YM commercial you haven't a cat in hells chance of finding any decent work without it.

If you are thinking of trying to make a living out of it, forget it, the pay is rubbish, certainly in the UK and for the stress and responsibilty of it (IMHO) is not worth it. I have heard of guys getting £100 a day for deliverying £1m worth of yacht (and the rest), bash it or make a mistake and that is expensive money either on you or the insurance company, either way most owners will not be happy campers.

I used to do it (mostly as favours for people) but in the end the hassle and the risk just isn't worth it for the peanuts you earn for me anyway. You also find some less scrupulous owners get you to fill up or stock with stores using your cash or C/card and then argue about paying for it later when you arrive. I have had people tell me they are not paying the full reimbursement on the fuel because my average passage speed was over 20 knts and I was wasting fuel.

Bit of a a subject for debate really, so many people just want the cheapest guy possible but then moan cus the boat is in a state when it arrives, warps all over the place, boat is dirty, boat literally just flung into the berth, scratches on the gelcoat etc. Peanuts / Monkeys etc....

Seems crazy to me and indeed it prevails throughout the whole spectrum of boating and ownership. People spend 100's of 1000's on a really nice boat and then run it on the cheap, moan about every cost, always trying to find the cheapest way out of everything and then moan again when cheap bits fall off, rubbish service lets the boat / machinery down and never go anywhere cus they wont pay for the fuel.

Maybe that is a bit insensitive given the current economic climate but relevant enough from several seasons of UK boating and the observations I have made. Of course there are plenty that just get out there and do it and work out the cost before they splurged on a boat and are very particular when it comes to looking after their pride and joy but some boats only a few seasons old would break your heart when you see the way some people skimp and treat them and leave them to basically rot on a toon.
 
Don't know much about commercial delivery skippers but I have have to agree, what any owner does with his or her boat is up to them but to see boats growing, what can only be described as beards underneath, is really disheartening.
Perhaps a caravan would be a better buy for those peeps?
I sometimes struggle to justify to myself the cost of lifts, anti-foul, servicing and new bits for the boat, but we wanted a boat and knew that sacrifices would have to be made in other areas.
Worth it though, when the sun is shining and the sea is like a mirror, 110 hrs this year and I think only one of them was as I've just described! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
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but some boats only a few seasons old would break your heart when you see the way some people skimp and treat them and leave them to basically rot on a toon.

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This really p1sses me off. Was at a marina on the Shannon (Ireland) last weekend and saw a lovely sunseeker and looked really tatty and just old from the cosmetic state of it - To my shock when I looked in the window I saw EDC/EVC Controls /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif - It wasn't an old boat, you could tell by the shape, but it was manky /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
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but reality is without YM commercial you haven't a cat in hells chance of finding any decent work without it.

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Yup! And also make sure it's the right qualification for the job. I had a guy contcat us for work and when I told him that we could not use him as his YM was for sail and not power he got very "upset".

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If you are thinking of trying to make a living out of it, forget it, the pay is rubbish, certainly in the UK and for the stress and responsibilty of it (IMHO) is not worth it. I have heard of guys getting £100 a day for deliverying £1m worth of yacht (and the rest), bash it or make a mistake and that is expensive money either on you or the insurance company, either way most owners will not be happy campers.

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You and I have had this discussion. Only this week I Had an owner say that he was only prepared to pay £X. You can guess what I said!!

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You also find some less scrupulous owners get you to fill up or stock with stores using your cash or C/card and then argue about paying for it later when you arrive. I have had people tell me they are not paying the full reimbursement on the fuel because my average passage speed was over 20 knts and I was wasting fuel.

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We make it very clear what our policy is. We are also not the cheapest, but then we carry insurance for all the skippers who work for us, plus we don't just use anybody with a "ticket". We like to think that we are there to protect and investment, not simply deliver a boat.
 
Ah ha, you hit the nail on the head there my friend......... "protect your investment". Exactly, if you are going to have someone else drive your boat make bloomin sure they are the best you can afford, check out reputation, get references and speak to someone that has used them before. saving a few quid on a skipper that has charge of your £200k boat could work out a very expensive way to find out they were no bloody good.

No intent against your good selves Dave! totally tickey boo with your peeps moving our stuff around, good Lord man!, I even let you deliver my own 52 and for me to let anyone touch my baby is saying something /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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No intent against your good selves Dave! totally tickey boo with your peeps moving our stuff around, good Lord man!, I even let you deliver my own 52 and for me to let anyone touch my baby is saying something /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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No offence taken Trev, the other factor is that all the people we use for deliveries are instructors as well. Contry to some on these 'ere fora, not everybody has the temperament to teach. And what's more the old addage "Those who can, do, and those that can't, teach!" does not apply in this game - if you can't do it, and to a high standard, you can't teach it!

It's the same with cruise in companies - most who go on them want the comfort of knowing that if it all goes "pete tong" there is somebody there to get them out of the poo. Next year we are doing a cruise in company and will be taking a number of instructors who will move from boat to boat as needed. They are not there to have a jolly but to help, advise and build confidence. One small draw back is that to come with us, you have to have been a client! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif There are a few on here. Up for it chaps?
 
I do a bit of delivery work although it is getting a bit thin on the ground now.
It is interesting to see prices of 180-200 sovs a day quoted, must be from the south coast, up in this neck of the woods you are lucky to get 150.
I was always under the impression that a minimum qualification was commercially endorsed day skip or yacht master. Most brokers wont accept anything less than YM.
Good luck you will need it!!!!!!
 
I have found this whole delivery skipper route frustrating and disappointing.

I set out at the start of last year to get the qualifications (commercial YM Power) so that I could do some delivery work but it hasn't really worked out. There are far too many qualified, and more importantly experienced, people for the market which means people are prepared to do jobs for next to nothing. I find it rediculous in the extreme that skippers with all the tickets and relevent experience are prepared to take a boat that is worth hundreds of thousands, be responsible for it and the crew, and do it all for £100 per day but far too many do. However, that is the marketplace you will be working in and it is a very, very competitive business.

Not only that but I have found that many agencies expect you to work as crew for a while UNPAID (often not even expenses) and then as first mate (sometimes unpaid, sometimes expenses only and sometimes a small payment) while they guage your abilities. I certainly think is fair that newly qualified YMs should work as crew then first mate before being given charge of a delivery but it is the pay, or lack of it, that I think is wrong.

I think it is fair to say (Solitaire and others correct me if this is wrong) that to make a living solely from deliveries is almost impossible unless you are already very well established and very well known in the business and even then it is tough.

I have done a few deliveries now as crew but I have given up any idea of making delivery skipper my main income. I am doing other things and just taking the delivery jobs when they crop up and even then I seldom get paid so it is really only for the experience and miles.

This whole situation reminds me a lot of the situation that existed a few years back in the flying instruction business. At that time most flying instructors were either not paid or were paid next to nothing. Most were willing to do it for free because it gave them the hours they needed to for the commercial pilots licence (700hrs) without them having to pay to rent an aeroplane. It was accepted that instructors would work for nothing because if you didn't there was always someone else who would.

I wish anyone the very best of luck if you want to do delivery work full-time. It will take a great deal of determination and stamina to get to the point where regular work is likely IMO and when not delivering then most skippers seem to do instructing and other boat related work that not only pays more but also keeps them "in the loop" so that when work does come up they are in the firing line to get it.
 
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I think it is fair to say (Solitaire and others correct me if this is wrong) that to make a living solely from deliveries is almost impossible unless you are already very well established and very well known in the business and even then it is tough.



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Pretty much hit the nail on the head here Paul. There are some skippers who make a living out of just delivereis but they are well established with the boat companies. Deliveries are not easy to come by if you are not known!

We do pay crew if qualified, but we also take crew who want to build miles and as you say it's cheaper than building miles through chartereing if they don't have their own boat. We do pay expenses. When I was starting out I even had to pay my own expenses to get crewing jobs and know how hard it is.

As a business, we could not make a living out of just deliveries or just out of instructing. We have a diverse income stream covering chartering, deliveries, coding, and of course instructing. We also offer a chandlery service for our clients as well.

On top of all that, we also do assisted passages where clients pay us to go with them on trips and they get the benefit of non RYA instruction on the course of the journey. Additionally we also put on specific training for different things - electronic nav, radar on your won boat etc. We also work for major organisations as the Environment Agency, Police forces and other such organisations as well as engine manufactuers, marine electronics companies and civil engineering companies.

Additionally, our client base is very loyal - over 60% of our business is repeat and we have taken people from a zero base right up to YM - saying that we do not do the "zero to hero" courses. Yes, we do make a living from the business and we are not the cheapest by any means, but we won't make millions and it's hard work. Come Sunday I will have worked 14 days on the trot and much of that over 12 hours a day.

I'm taking next week off!! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif But you can bet your bottom dollar I will do some work here. /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
It not a job that money is a priority, Its a HARD job to get into, and you are only as good as the last bit of work you did or the bit before that etc.

Some jobs are great, the one we did together at eastbourn was OK, nice boat, some rough seas we just had to go play with for a short time, few are like that.

A friend works for a well know boat company and it was a IT HAS TO BE THERE JOB, it takes a big sea to put an 85 foot almost vertical.

But then I love the teaching bits and the odd delivery, as long as I don't have the bilge alarm jammed on for nearly 2 hrs, ask Solitaire. and no we were not sinking, I checked.

Keep it as a hobby.
 
Something else I have noticed is that with many agencies they use the people they have used recently. By that I mean that if a job comes up and you turn it down then someone else will get the job. Next time a job comes up it isn't you that gets to hear about it... it is the person that did the last job and you continue to miss out until that person can't do a job then you might get another look in.

This means that if you ever turn a job down then that pretty much scuppers you for getting future work, at least for a while, from that agency. This means that if you make yourself available to and give priority to one agency then fine but the more you turn work down and the more you spread yourself around then overall the less work you will get.

I am sure that this isn't so with all agencies but it is certainly true with many of them.
 
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Info@oceandrivecharter.com

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LOL.. prepare to be spammed (even more so that I have quoted you, and that you can't get rid of your e-mail address now that i've quoted ie) /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
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