Define Bluewater

[FlyingGoose]

So here goes I am off to the big Blue after the Wife save;s the Planet
hopefully in 2 years if she pulls her finger out
Now my Question is what defines a boat as Bluewater ready , mostly all boats now have decent Navigation, AIS, Radar fitted , yes extra chain but I ve got 80m's of that . yes Solar or Wind but again this has become the norm for weekend Crusiers , water Maker ! has anyone seen those videos of the ARC start were the lovlies have more bottled water than Scotland.
Heavy Duty rigging , come on who upgrades all their rigging , if it can handle the channel it must be able to handle the Atlantic milk run

Extra spares , but we all have then somewere ? and unless going to the back of beyond, most spare availble
Anchor you need a modern anchor Rocna is the forums fav,
Extra lines , now if you look inside my boat I could tie up Godzilla
perhaps and this makes sense a decent wardrobe of sails to handle all condtions
Some extra saftey equipment EPIRB (I have already) ocean life raft good life jackets but I have the those and I suspect most go sailing with saftey in mind

A bloomin big full keeled 50ft steel behmoth , nay a 42 ft Moody Plastic boat in which most circumnavigations are done (i.e smallish plastic boats many large production boats)

Decent water and fuel storage , but this would depend on boat size and litres burned , so what would the panel belive is the ratio of litres held against hours of fuel burned ? therefore fuel needed ,I keep seeing all thse boats with 20 jerry cans strapped to their sides , does weight not burn more fuel, is it why we have sails

All in all I do not think there is much diffrence to get a boat ready to ocean crossing and yet all I hear is it will take £10.000 + to get it ready for blue water crusing or you need to take a year out or other such information this seems to be worse over the pond were if there is no 1000 watt array and ice maker with washing machine , and coffe maker your not ready for bluewater cruising , but as a hardy Scot I only need the Dishwasher and ice maker for my health you understand

So help me out have I missed something or am I planing for a fall with no planning and lack of respect for the bigblue

Clearly there are excemptions t oevery rule I m not intrested in those hardy Bastardos that eat raw fish and dont shave Im more of a Snob

Thanks all

 

[geem]

Well what everybody seems to forget when you get somewhere hot is its....hot. Shade is important. A bimini and or suncover over the boom at least. Lots of fans down below. We have 7. Good ventilation helps. Back cabins can be unbearable if you cant get air in and out.
A watermaker is a must for me. Yes you will have the diehards who tell you they suvive on 6ltrs per day and wash in salt water but that wears thin and smelly after a while. We are not trying to prove how tough we are. We like water. Our watermaker will give us 200litres per hour. It means we make it fast. We are not slaves to watermaking or water hauling. Who wants to spend time going to a tap with 20litre cans back and forward? We wash our clothes and we shower regularly.
A decent dinghy. There are two types of cruiser in the Caribbean. Those with an adequate dinghy and those without. Anchorages can be a long way from town, provisions and dinghy docks. Minimum of 10hp engine and a nice dry dinghy cos the wind blows 25 kts more often than not. It gets choppy and the 3.5hp egg wisk just doesnt hack it for a 1mile trip in to town. Sounds like you have everything else sorted

 

[Kelpie]

I've been going through a similar thought process- if a boat is well set up for coastal cruising, what do you really need to spend to turn it in to a bluewater-capable boat?

We haven't left yet, but are well on the way with planning. My tuppence worth so far would include the following:
- proper tender capable of covering longer distances against a chop (but some people use a kayak)
- lots of solar and a big battery bank. Coastal cruising involves lots of motoring, bluewater doesn't, so you need another way of making electricity.
- spares, spares, and more spares. You don't know where you'll be when something breaks. We plan on taking an exhaust elbow, water pump, and alternator, which will be expensive but buying them now will be cheaper than having them shipped to wherever we are when they wear out.
- some means of communication beyond VHF range. Satphone, SSB, Iridium Go, etc.

 

[Wansworth]

There is no putting the gene back in the bottle soon it will be impossible to set sail to this blue water without being able to ensure that no hardship will befall you or that your be inconvenienced .Its all beginning to look like the queues on Everest,one word of advice don’t take tinned fish to Galicia,they even have Kellogg s Cornflakes

 

[BobnLesley]

...has anyone seen those videos of the ARC start were the lovlies have more bottled water than Scotland...

Lovlies(sic) or perhaps just prudent mariners?
No matter how much faith you might have in your water-maker, I wouldn't advise setting out to cross an ocean without loading sufficient water aboard to get you there and if you've got a water-maker, then use it to top-up your tanks before you 'really' need to; twice in recent months we've helped-out with water for yachts whose water-makers had failed.

No we don't have one aboard on the principal that 'anything that's not fitted can't break', but like RKJ and that James Cook chappie before us, we seem to be managing. Though that decision is only 'right' for us as like every other bit of advice regarding Blue Water Sailing if it commences, concludes or anywhere includes a suggestion that it's 'the only way to do it' then stop listening and enquire elsewhere.

Within reason it's not about the boat, most are capable of crossing an ocean, what's more difficult is to find and prepare a crew capable of going with it.

 

[geem]

Lovlies(sic) or perhaps just prudent mariners?
No matter how much faith you might have in your water-maker, I wouldn't advise setting out to cross an ocean without loading sufficient water aboard to get you there and if you've got a water-maker, then use it to top-up your tanks before you 'really' need to; twice in recent months we've helped-out with water for yachts whose water-makers had failed.

No we don't have one aboard on the principal that 'anything that's not fitted can't break', but like RKJ and that James Cook chappie before us, we seem to be managing. Though that decision is only 'right' for us as like every other bit of advice regarding Blue Water Sailing if it commences, concludes or anywhere includes a suggestion that it's 'the only way to do it' then stop listening and enquire elsewhere.

Within reason it's not about the boat, most are capable of crossing an ocean, what's more difficult is to find and prepare a crew capable of going with it.

I think the whole watermaker thing could be another thread. So many people fit 12v water makers with the idea of being energy efficient. We know several cruisers who have 12v water makers who admit to running the engine whilst the watermaker is running. Unless you have a catamaran with acres of space it's hard to install enough solar to charge batteries, run the fridge and make water all at the same time. Batteries take a beating. Energy recovery water makers seem attractive on the face of it but the energy efficient comes at a price. Cost and complexity. Reliability for me is paramount. Energy efficiency is less important if you are running it from a generator. For me the simpler the watermaker the less can go wrong.
Having a back up system that uses an inverter with the engine running works for us. We also carry a spare high pressure pump. For crossing oceans we have a water tank of 800 litres. We don't run the tank down below what we need should the watermaker fail. Cruising around the Caribbean we don't carry more than 200litres.

 

[RichardS]

I think the whole watermaker thing could be another thread.

And has been, many times.

Richard

 

[KellysEye]

Hydrovane wind vane it acts as another member of crew, is awake 24 hours a day and doesn't eat or sleep.

 

[Frank Holden]

Water.... watermaker or not.....
It pays to carry a supply of 5 or 6 litre jugs of 'shop water'.... you choose how much... I carry 6 x 6litres.
6 litre jugs are handy size when you are ferrying water out to a mooring.
Shop bought keeps better than just refilled jugs... 'frinstance Tongan goes green in a month or so..
If you can 'split' your water supply do so.
Make sure that failure of the pressure release valve on your calorifier doesn't dump all your potable into the bilge... don't ask....
I carry 2 x 200 litres of potable ( no water maker ) plus the 6x6...

 

[Kukri]

Good advice on the shop water.

Sometimes I wonder about the former owners; we carry a ton of fresh water in two big stainless tanks right above the keel... so far, so good... but they are interconnected and they both feed the pressure water system and the calorifier... The only trace of the water maker is the switch for it... but Fans*»R*»Us...

 

[Frank Holden]

Good advice on the shop water.

Sometimes I wonder about the former owners; we carry a ton of fresh water in two big stainless tanks right above the keel... so far, so good... but they are interconnected and they both feed the pressure water system and the calorifier... The only trace of the water maker is the switch for it... but Fans*»R*»Us...

Rule number one or thereabouts.... turn off the pressure water when at sea....
The bottom of my two FW tanks is at the same level as the bottom of my calorifier.... pressure pump off but 50% of my potable ended up in the bilge ... 24 hours into a 44 day passage....
Pressure relief valve now has a 'tail' that ends a solid metre above the tanks....
Being able to isolate your tanks is just standard big ship practice... as you know...
I have no gauges... when one tank is empty I know I have 50% left.... I'm good at sums

 

[geem]

Good advice on the shop water.

Sometimes I wonder about the former owners; we carry a ton of fresh water in two big stainless tanks right above the keel... so far, so good... but they are interconnected and they both feed the pressure water system and the calorifier... The only trace of the water maker is the switch for it... but Fans*»R*»Us...

We have pressurised water feeding calorifier. We also have an alarm on the main bilge pump. If the pump runs, so does the alarm. We only get worried when the alarm does go off. It activates when a cup of water builds up in the main sump. We could never be in a position that half our water ends up in the bilges without knowing well in advance. We never buy water in lpastic cans from a shop. We care about the envirnoment. We dont want to be responsible for the millions of plastic bottles on the shore of islands, killing wildife and polluted out oceans. We try not to buy and food in styrene packaging for the same reason. Lots of the poorest countries have no refuse collection. Plastic gets burnt or thrown in to the sea. Dont add to the problem

 

[jwilson]

"Bluewater boat" used to mean a heavy long-keel ketch, possibly steel. Now it's often just any modern boat with a few extra bits of kit, and a satphone to call for help. In truth either can be suitable: the key factor is the crew skill/knowledge/determination.

Have personally been glad of plenty of bottled water well offshore after a tank problem.

 

[capnsensible]

Ive never sailed ocean stuff on a yacht with a watermaker. Its never been an issue though because I always stock up massively on bottled water. 5L to decant from, lots of 1.5L spread around and a few 0.5 L to fit in a fridge....if there is one.

Salt water pump is good for washing up, beats a bucket, mostly.

Tip. Use an old spray bottleof some sort, suitably rinsed, filled with fresh water to rinse plates and cookware. Works a treat.

 

[Wansworth]

There speaks a man who knows his Onions!

 

[geem]

I dont think the main benefit of a watemaker is in crossing oceans. Its more about living aboard in locations where water is harder to get and of unknown quality or poor quality. If you want to be off the beaten track then the watermaker makes a difference. If you go in to marinas in popular places then you could suvive without a watermaker. 2 months on the south coast of Cuba where getting potable water was impossible is an example. Offlying islands of the Bahamas and in San Blas you couldnt get water. In San Blas we made water for the locals as they were short of good drinking water.

If you spend a month at sea doing one of the longer passages in the Pacific then assuming you use 5 gallons per day you need to carry over 700 litres. We can do this in our main tank no problem without bottles. We would of course carry emergency water in jerry cans but we would likely make water onroute, wash pans in fresh water, takes a shower, do some washing, etc being ruffty tufty is fine if you like to camp. It gets tedious.

 

[FlyingGoose]

Much thanks for all replies , Keplie yes I forgot about satphone will be installing Iridium Go for weather and saftey , not sure SSB is the future
Water is an issue and I dont mean to be negative to bottled water , it is sensible to have water out with the tanks , but as a hardened enviromentalist married to a Dr of Science dealing with Climate change , the issue of plastic always comes up and how do we reduce our footprint, we take our plastic and then give it to a Island that might not have the resources to recycle it .
Is potable water in jerry cans better .

Good shade is a must :encouragement:
I like the idea of a wind vane but 5 to 6 k must make a second auto pilot more feasable
Looking at around 500 w of solar this is without needing to fit a Frame at the back I appreciate wind Turbines are less energy efficent and work poor down wind , but do they add to power as through the night they work if the wind is a blowing

Does any one out there cruising use any form of Air condtioning or is this just another pleasure that is nice but not really needed

thank all

 

[capnsensible]

For energy generation, try Watt @ Sea. Obviously poor at low boat speed but generally excellent. Pricey but worth it.

Mixing wind, solar and water power provides lots of alternates.

You can use a lot less than 5 gallons a day for Glamping! In my experience of the Pacific......

 

[steve yates]

I cant imagine ever relying solely on autopilots for ocean crossings, I think I would rather have a windvane than epirb & liferaft!

But then I have never crossed one, so it's just an opinion, not experience.

 

[GHA]

not sure SSB is the future

SSB receive is a personal must for offshore to get weatherfax charts. Doesn't have to cost much though, you could probably get something for well under a hundred quid and decode the images on a tablet/laptop.
Wfax is great, free and see the big picture of what's going on.