Defever alternatives

Rob_Webb

Rob_Webb

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Helping a friend search for a mid-sized (used) displ motor boat and we like the Defevers (44 and 49 models) but wondering what other makes he should be considering aside from Grand Banks and Selene. Any ideas welcome. We're based in NZ so viewing options here are quite limited hence our most likely target market will be US + shipping to NZ.
 
Default displacement choice for many people would be a Nordhavn 43 or 46/47. Another well respected boat is the Kadey Krogen 44/48. Btw, Grand Banks are excellent boats but they're more semi displacement than full displacement
 
Rob_Webb said:
Helping a friend search for a mid-sized (used) displ motor boat and we like the Defevers (44 and 49 models) but wondering what other makes he should be considering aside from Grand Banks and Selene. Any ideas welcome. We're based in NZ so viewing options here are quite limited hence our most likely target market will be US + shipping to NZ.
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I have a DeFever 48, very happy with it, very heavily built. Ours is over 20 years old but still often mistaken for a very much newer boat. Check whether any boat he's looking at was built in Taiwan or China. When production first moved to China, can't remember offhand when that was, the quality suffered for a year or two until the workforce came up to scratch. There's a very good owners club with lots of info, but, as you would expect, based in the USA. Also worth getting hold of a few Passagemaker mags, it's published with the displacement boat owner in mind.
One important recommendation, aim to get a boat with stabilisers, almost essential in my books.
 
Rob_Webb said:
Helping a friend search for a mid-sized (used) displ motor boat and we like the Defevers (44 and 49 models) but wondering what other makes he should be considering aside from Grand Banks and Selene. Any ideas welcome. We're based in NZ so viewing options here are quite limited hence our most likely target market will be US + shipping to NZ.
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Without doubt the biggest trawler yacht market is the States, with huge numbers available and their dollar still weak, makes perfect sense.

The Nordhavn would be a good choice being set up for proper long distance cruising, and although they usually sell for big dollars, some of the older 46's are coming up for quite realistic money.
Have a look on Yachtworld.com, there's one sitting in Turkey priced well, fully equipped.
The Selene is also right up there as a quality boat.
 
Piers said:
Don't forget the Fleming - like mine! Gorgeous lines, gorgeous looks, just gorgeous.

http://www.flemingyachts.com/
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Beautiful boats but, strictly speaking, not full displacement hulled boats rather semi displacement. Do you run your F55 at displacement speed and do you have stabilizers? What do you think of the new 58?
 
AndieMac said:
The Selene is also right up there as a quality boat.
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I'm no expert but the received wisdom on the internet seems to be that the Selenes are prettier but not built to the same standard as the Nordhavn. I got talking to a Selene 53 owner last year and he definitely wasn't happy with his boat or the service he had received and his boat looked a lot older than the 5yrs it actually was. Certainly Selenes are cheaper to buy new and cheaper secondhand so worth a look
 
Many thanks guys, some helpful pointers there. I agree I think the US market is where we'll get most choice and bang for the buck.

Cheers
 
Deleted User said:
I'm no expert but the received wisdom on the internet seems to be that the Selenes are prettier but not built to the same standard as the Nordhavn. I got talking to a Selene 53 owner last year and he definitely wasn't happy with his boat or the service he had received and his boat looked a lot older than the 5yrs it actually was. Certainly Selenes are cheaper to buy new and cheaper secondhand so worth a look
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I just missed an opportunity to skipper a new 59' Selene on a coastal passage here last year, unfortunately, but I had heard a couple of years ago from Scott Flanders that it was a toss up for him between the Selene and the Nordhavn.
Mind you that was probably nine years ago now, maybe they have dropped the ball a bit?
Come to think of it the local 59 did have a couple of issues with a stb. stabilizer and the galvanic isolation system.
It may depend on how the owners individually cope with teething problems and the attitude of the delivering agent.
 
longjohnsilver said:
One important recommendation, aim to get a boat with stabilisers, almost essential in my books.
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You know I like your Defever very much, (Don't tell MapisM, he's not supposed to know I'm still looking at displacement boats ;))
even more impressed that she has stabilizers,
was that a retrofit ? did you have them installed ? by whom ?
 
BartW said:
You know I like your Defever very much, (Don't tell MapisM, he's not supposed to know I'm still looking at displacement boats ;))
even more impressed that she has stabilizers,
was that a retrofit ? did you have them installed ? by whom ?
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Hi Bart, yes they were fitted about 5 years ago, Trac stabs, I believe the first boat in the UK to have them, commissioned by the previous owner after a particularly rolly passage back across the English Channel!
 
Deleted User said:
Beautiful boats but, strictly speaking, not full displacement hulled boats rather semi displacement. Do you run your F55 at displacement speed and do you have stabilizers? What do you think of the new 58?
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Hi Deleted User,

You are right. Flemings have a semi-displacement hull, akthough I run Play d'eau at 8kts. She sits beautifully and I get around 1.7nm to the imperial gallon. She also has Trac stabilisers which are simply perfect. Wouldn't be without them.

Travelling at 8kts has made us really appreciate the passage making. No longer is it an endurance race. Slow is the new fast for us.

The 58 looks even better. Literally, an infalted 55. A simple point - the bit we like the best are the twin helm seats so both of can be together in the pilot house.
 
Piers said:
Hi Deleted User,

You are right. Flemings have a semi-displacement hull, akthough I run Play d'eau at 8kts. She sits beautifully and I get around 1.7nm to the imperial gallon. She also has Trac stabilisers which are simply perfect. Wouldn't be without them.

Travelling at 8kts has made us really appreciate the passage making. No longer is it an endurance race. Slow is the new fast for us.

The 58 looks even better. Literally, an infalted 55. A simple point - the bit we like the best are the twin helm seats so both of can be together in the pilot house.
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Thanks Piers. Our next boat will very likely be a trawler type boat which we would plan to run at displacement speed most if not all the time. My thoughts are to go with a semi-d boat just to have the speed in hand if ever I needed it but there is another school of thought which says that if you're going to be doing d speeds 99% of the time, then you should buy a boat designed specifically for that purpose. We don't have any intention of crossing the Atlantic or anything like that but I would want to undertake open water passages like Biscay, for example.
The Fleming 55 is a lovely boat but how comfortable is it at d speeds with stabilizers in a big sea compared to say something like a Nordhavn 55 with stabilizers? Tony Fleming makes a distinction between his boats and full displacement boats so I'm wondering what that difference actually means in practice.
Also excuse me for asking this. Two of our criticisms of the Fleming 55 have been the relatively small saloon (relative to the cockpit and relative to other similar sized boats) and the fact that the master cabin is in the bow rather than amidships. How do you get on with these 2 issues on your boat? Yes I know the new F58 addresses this last point but I'm guessing that it's price is going to be megabucks
 
AndieMac said:
I don't think M is going to be the problem....have you told your wife? :D
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being without her on the boat, I completely forgot about her,
this morning I send her a message "I miss you xxx"

she promptly answered: did you run out of food, or whats wrong with you ? :D:D

(excuses to OP for thread drift !)
 
Deleted User said:
Thanks Piers.

The Fleming 55 is a lovely boat but how comfortable is it at d speeds with stabilizers in a big sea compared to say something like a Nordhavn 55 with stabilizers?

Two of our criticisms of the Fleming 55 have been the relatively small saloon (relative to the cockpit and relative to other similar sized boats) and the fact that the master cabin is in the bow rather than amidships. How do you get on with these 2 issues on your boat? Yes I know the new F58 addresses this last point but I'm guessing that it's price is going to be megabucks
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Hi Deleted User,

I will try to be concise...

With stabs, the 55 is brilliant at displacement speeds. One great benefit is the 55's low centre of gravity in comparison to the Nordhavn's higher CoG demaning which in turn demands more effort from the stabs. That shouldn't be a problem - until the stabs fail. (We have the option to run the stabs from either engine).

Tony believes very strongly that engines are more important than people (as he once said to me when I asked abpout cabin space). However, in practice, we have no gripes at all about the space. The space in the engine room is great for working on the engines and generators etc, and the huge transom stores all our spares and excess boat clobber.

Since we really only use the boat for the two of us and maybe two friends, the one thing we should have done is to have had the third cabin as an office and not a bedroom.

Apart fom that, the pilothouse is a dream, and it's lovely having wide companionways, a large aft cockpit, and the ability to step off the boat onto the pontoon without any climbing.

Here endeth the first lesson....
 
About 20 years ago I spent a summer onboard a Flemming 55 working for the owner, it didn't have stabs and I recall it being a particularly steady boat compared to anything else I had been on.

Lovely lovely boat.

I am quite sure that in the next 20 years the future of biggish motorboats is displacement.
 
Piers said:
The space in the engine room is great for working on the engines and generators etc
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Well, the F55 e/r is definitely excellent in comparison to many other boats of similar size, but even if I'm not a giant I recall that I couldn't stand on anywhere in the e/r.
And this is a very desirable feature in a long range cruiser, imho.
 
Other 'trawler' possibilities could include Mainship - http://www.mainship.com/

Here is one for sale in Oz, with a single 380 hp engine : http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2011/Mainship-414-Trawler-2300813/Gold-Coast/Australia

And here is another, although it is a rather fast semi-displacement hull form (with 880 hp!), rather than full displacement : http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2009/Mainship-45---479-Trawler-2267955/Gold-Coast/Australia

I did a search for trawler yachts between 40 - 50' that included the USA, and over 1,000 vessels came up - here is one at random, on the east coast - http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/199...e-50-Trawler-2303574/Seattle/WA/United-States
She has two Cummins 6BT engines (710 hp in total), and they say she will do 15 knots......
 
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