Deep or Shoal Fin Keel?

Emjaytoo

Emjaytoo

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Us: Kent; Emjaytoo: Holland; Kate: Conyer Creek
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Last week at LIBS we put down our deposit for a Bavaria 30 and have to firm up the factory options. The one we can't decide on is the keel. Deep - 1.85m or Shoal 1.4m. We intend sailing in UK East Coast waters, southern North Sea and Dutch coastal/inland waters. The obvious choice is the shoal draft version, however we are concerned that this might compromise stability and performance when out in the open sea. Any comments please?
 
Having a deeper draft - ie with the weight further down - will make the boat 'stiffer' up wind. The concerns about stability etc are obviously a factor, but either will be quite safe.

I'd highly recommend the shoal draft for East Coast area - going deep draft will severely limit where you can get to. With the shoal draft you could get through Havengore Bridge, and easily into shallow entry marinas such as Tollesbury or Titchmarsh. It's quite amazing how much more limited the East Coast becomes when you have a 6' draft...
 
Went through thsi dilema when I bought a Dufour 34, went deep never regreted it at all and I sail on the east coast. Quite honestly .45m makes little difference to getting places but massive diff in sailing performance.

Get some masking tape and mark a door jamb at 1.4 and 1.85 then look at it for a few days until you know what you want.
 
Congratulations on buying a new boat!

I'd go for the deep one. If it was me, I'd seldom be cutting it as fine as 0.45m in tidal waters.
 
Thanks for asking this question Kim! We have the same dilemma (1.5m vs 1.95m in our case). We are buying used, so this makes the problem of finding the right boat even harder! At present we are looking at Jeanneau 40DS (any constructive comments welcomed re choice of boat) if the keel issue goes away there are at least 6 we can look at. If we limit ourselves to 1.5m there are only 3!
 
Look, the boat is yours - the call is yours. You must know what is most important, sailing performance or ditch crawling?

I chose a bilge keeler for shallow & drying harbours. I don't do many long passages so my boats performanc is fine. I don't often get left for dead by others because 9 times out of 10 their sail setting is so poor that the keel configuration is irrelevant!

Everyone here will have their own reasons for their own boats - most don't want to change; so our comments are about our own circumstances - not yours!

Make a list of pros & cons, if one outweighs the other your choice is made. If the balance is about equal it doesn't matter!
 
Conflicting replies so far (and a very sensible one from Searush. It is your choice). One obvious question is whether the shoal draft keel is heavier, or has its weight concentrated at the bottom to a greater extent than the fin. In either of those cases there may be little difference in stability, though the greater area of the deeper fin will help upwind performance. (both will probably point as high, but the deeper keel version should make less leeway)
If stability is roughly the same then the shoal draft should make more sense for East Coast sailing, particularly if your chosen mooring has tide dependant access. The biggest difference between the two in practical terms could be the slightly bigger arrival and departure window of opportunity either side of high tide.
As an aside, the time you most feel the need for maximum stability is in heavy weather, when you are well reefed down or motoring. In those conditions the extra up the mast weight of in mast reefing may have just as adverse an effect as the choice of a shoal keel.
 
Having had all three of the types discussed here, bilge, shoal and deep - and I sail the east coast - it's no contest it has to be deep. The other keels are heavier when compared to the deep option but the motion of the boat is inferior. Despite being told that the stability is the same for either version (shoal or fin) having experienced both, frankly I doubt it.

The fin versions are far more stable and have a far more comforable motion. You could ask for a trial in both I wish I had whan I bought my shoal version.
 
Thanks for all your comments. Every time I raise this issue there seem to be two equal camps for and against so maybe that tells us something. We are less worried about upwind performance than a comfortable motion (good point marsupial) and not going aground! Can't see us being able to arrange 2 sea trials but it's a very good idea.
 
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Can't see us being able to arrange 2 sea trials but it's a very good idea.

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Why not? You're about to spend Gazillions of your hard earned loot. If they can't let you try both types, or put you in touch with satisfied customers who might be prepared to take you out for the day, I'd be inclined to keep hold of the loot (not that I am ever likely to have that sort of amount anyway!) & go elsewhere.
 
We changed boats 6 years ago from 1m to 1.85m draft.
No question that the deeper draft gives superior windward performance and seakeeping.
But we do regret not being able to access some of our favourite smaller harbours in Holland.
Get your Dutch charts out and check the areas you will be excluded from, much of Friesland for example.
I miss not being able to anchor outside the 1.5m channel markers.
Swings & roundabouts.

Dan
 
You'll find strong arguments either way, but FWIW I took the shoal option on our Dufour 30 which we sail from the Deben.

In our case it is very advantageous given the shallow Bar and access to other shoal ports & anchorages locally and further afield. We've visited France twice and crossed to Holland & back twice and have no issue with stability or seakeeping for the size of yacht in conditions in which we've sailed (up to F7).

Windward ability would doubtless be better with a deep fin but relatively little of our sailing time is spent on long passages so for us the flexibility of less draft outweights the minor leeway/motion disadvantage.

Having sailed a Mac26X I can confirm that either option will be an enormous improvement to windward!
 
Hmmm ...we are going through the same thing. Sail on east coast and thinking is that shoal keel will give us better access to places like Deben, Woodbridge, Heybridge. etc with fewer heartstopping moments like Deben bar , wallet spitway etc and "open the door" for longer. Also makes French canals practical and some of those shallow french ports as well.
Trouble is it seems impossible to get a sail on a new shoal keeler -we like the Dufour but there do not seem to be any about with this keel Try asking for polars on the shoal option...and I'm not going to buy a boat with out sailing it ever again! I'm just surprised I cannot find a really good shoal(or lift) keel 34 footer with good sailing performance in UK or indeed Holland....unless anyone knows better PLEASE!
 
With a 1.8m fin keel even here on the solent it can be restrictive - but only for getting over cills/bars.
If we bought again it would probably not be a deep fin.
 
I have now confirmed our shoal draft keel and find that it is a tandem keel as offered on Etaps, invented by a guy called Warwick Collins and used on racing boats. Seems they give much better up wind performance than conventional shoal draft keels.

So best of both worlds? I'm sure someone will tell me I can't have "the best of both worlds"

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
I sail out of the Deben & have changed from a twin fin to a not so deep keel at 1.52m,but loaded is just over 1.6.I have not found much difference in access(can access Deben at half tide either way generally) on the East Coast.
Sailing performance is much improved from my previous boats & as I started some 40 yrs ago as a dinghy sailor I realise I still appreciate the feel of a fin keeler through the tiller.This is my own opinion of course
 
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