McSalty
New member
Uh,... ignorant me, but: What can I measure (or how to detect short circuits?) since the batteries have been bone dryy for some 3 or 4 years at least?
Deep Cycle Battery
- Thread starter LeonF
- Start date
Uh,... ignorant me, but: What can I measure (or how to detect short circuits?) since the batteries have been bone dryy for some 3 or 4 years at least?
Pete7
Well-known member
Ye gods what have you bought a submarine?
Suggest you do a search on here on batteries and the advice to calculate your amp hours needs and then match this to the size of the battery bank you need. You may find you don't need to carry all that lot and save a few bob too.Pete
Plevier
Active member
Uh,... ignorant me, but: What can I measure (or how to detect short circuits?) since the batteries have been bone dryy for some 3 or 4 years at least?
Before you add any water, just check with a multimeter. If the plates have distorted or suffered other damage (growths etc puncturing the separators) while drying out you may have metal to metal contact. If you see a lowish resistance chuck them.
If resistance is high you can fill them up and try charging but I'll be amazed if you have any success.
I'm assuming that although they look dry there will be the concentrated residue of sulphuric acid in them as I don't think it ever evaporates - can any chemist comment please?
On the other hand a lot of it has very likely been used up in converting the lead in the plates to lead sulphate which I'm sure is not going to be reversible after so long.
This is just a curiosity exercise. They are going to be scrap I'm certain!
McSalty
New member
Humm, I guess you unfortunately will be probably right - but with that price tag it's worth a try? No?
Could you comment, like in "numbers" what a "lowish resistance" and what a "high" one would be like?
I am having an ohm-meter right in front of me which I'll take down to the boat tomorrow. The water I added some 48 hours ago, so something surely must have "happened" in the meantime?
McSalty
New member
Ye gods what have you bought a submarine?
Pete
LOL, well its not too small a boat to begin with (but hopefull will not turn out to be submarine! even so it actually has been built by a yard that used to build submarines during sovjet days. Hope that aint a bad omen) and its not that much if you think about it.
This (12 x 6V) really converts into 3 x 24V @ 190 Ah each ... bringing the total available to less than 600 Ah (unless I am totally off with my calculation here?)
Considering the size of the boat together with experience with passangers (who tend to never switch off any lights) and other power-munchers typical with boats that size, I have a feeling that I'll be running them Gen-sets quite a lot.
(Which I probably need to anyways, since Washer, Dryer, Fridge, Deepfreeze etc. are regular household appliances)
....where are the days when I was totally happy goofing around in some 30'er?
Plevier
Active member
Well the water is in now so it's difficult! Have you a hydrometer to check the specific gravity?
Do they show any voltage at all?
If yes your meter readings will be meaningless.
If zero try your meter - on ohms - in both directions. If it reads roughly the same low value - say below 100 ohms , I'm guessing really - in both directions forget it.
Otherwise try your charger at your own risk.
McSalty
New member
Hi Willow,
just came back from the boat and had my meter/tester with me today.
Auto of the 12 batteries 11 did read an ohm value of pretty much all of them "100" - and a Voltage between 2 and 3 V (6V Batteries)
1 out of the batch was completely "dead" - no Voltage at all, no Ohm-reading at all. (tried it numerous times, needle of the meter did not move)
What is your conclusion from this information?
Is there any hope for the patient?
just came back from the boat and had my meter/tester with me today.
Auto of the 12 batteries 11 did read an ohm value of pretty much all of them "100" - and a Voltage between 2 and 3 V (6V Batteries)
1 out of the batch was completely "dead" - no Voltage at all, no Ohm-reading at all. (tried it numerous times, needle of the meter did not move)
What is your conclusion from this information?
Is there any hope for the patient?
Plevier
Active member
Hi Willow,
just came back from the boat and had my meter/tester with me today.
Auto of the 12 batteries 11 did read an ohm value of pretty much all of them "100" - and a Voltage between 2 and 3 V (6V Batteries)
1 out of the batch was completely "dead" - no Voltage at all, no Ohm-reading at all. (tried it numerous times, needle of the meter did not move)
What is your conclusion from this information?
Is there any hope for the patient?
The signs are ohminous.
Resistance readings on any that are developing voltage are meaningless as the voltage will upset the meter.
It's surprising that the one giving 0V shows infinite resistance, suggests something physically broken inside it. I would have been less surprised to see it shorted.
All you can do is try charging, I just don't know what to predict.
If you have a decent charger it will be protected but listen/smell for signs of distress! More likely they just won't take any current or charge.
McSalty
New member
First and most of all: Thank's for sharing your obviously fast knowledge in this field with me. It is HIGHLY appreciated!
OK, here I go again......
Now, since these are 6V Batteries, them being 12 and the onboard system being 24V means that they are grouped to make 3 groups of 4 batteries each = 3 x 24V (at 190Ah)
The "dead" one (the only one without any readings whatsoever) is part of one of these 3 groups. Prior to switching the charger on, should I disconnect that group from the service system?
And:
What would happen if I would buy 4 new batteries and group them to 190 Ah/24V ..... IF I'd keep them part of the "rat-pack" of all 3 groups? Will the older "half-dead" batteries drain the charge out of the new ones or does one have nothing to do with the other?
I most certainly will follow your advice of closely monitoring all batteries once the charger is back "on". They are very easily accessible underneath the Salon Seats, I kept the cushions off, the lids open, have removed the caps and placed an old, dry cloth over them so in case of something "gasing" or "bubbling" it will not spray any acid all over the place.
I guess it will be meaningless anyway if 24V equipment works while the charger is "on" - because in that instance the batteries will only be the "buffer" between the Voltage coming from the charger and the users, right?
So it would mean to leave the charger on for (?)i.e. 12 hours, then disconnect/switch off and see what happens to any charge the batteries might have by then - just to repeat the "game" again the next day?
Is it possible to sort of "train" the batteries again to keep their charger longer and longer with each time they are being charged and totally discharged .... or is it a "final verdict" if they dont work again right away?
Sorry for all these questions, I just hope this is not egoistic and other readers here might benefit from this thread too.
Once again: MANY THANKS for all your help!
OK, here I go again......
Now, since these are 6V Batteries, them being 12 and the onboard system being 24V means that they are grouped to make 3 groups of 4 batteries each = 3 x 24V (at 190Ah)
The "dead" one (the only one without any readings whatsoever) is part of one of these 3 groups. Prior to switching the charger on, should I disconnect that group from the service system?
And:
What would happen if I would buy 4 new batteries and group them to 190 Ah/24V ..... IF I'd keep them part of the "rat-pack" of all 3 groups? Will the older "half-dead" batteries drain the charge out of the new ones or does one have nothing to do with the other?
I most certainly will follow your advice of closely monitoring all batteries once the charger is back "on". They are very easily accessible underneath the Salon Seats, I kept the cushions off, the lids open, have removed the caps and placed an old, dry cloth over them so in case of something "gasing" or "bubbling" it will not spray any acid all over the place.
I guess it will be meaningless anyway if 24V equipment works while the charger is "on" - because in that instance the batteries will only be the "buffer" between the Voltage coming from the charger and the users, right?
So it would mean to leave the charger on for (?)i.e. 12 hours, then disconnect/switch off and see what happens to any charge the batteries might have by then - just to repeat the "game" again the next day?
Is it possible to sort of "train" the batteries again to keep their charger longer and longer with each time they are being charged and totally discharged .... or is it a "final verdict" if they dont work again right away?
Sorry for all these questions, I just hope this is not egoistic and other readers here might benefit from this thread too.
Once again: MANY THANKS for all your help!
Plevier
Active member
If your charger has a 6V output I would do one battery at once.
If it doesn't but has a 12V output I would do 2 at once.
If you only have 24V then do 4 at once.
I wouldn't have multiple parallel strings while you're trying to revive them.
I would definitely get them out of the boat in case of melting or fire. Anything could happen.
I really can't advise any more, you're in the land of the unknown with little chance of success. Try anything!
Have you got a hydrometer? SG is your best guide to whether anything is happening. Fully charged should be in the 1.24-1.28 region.
Good luck.
PS with batteries this old and maltreated no I would not mix new ones with them.
If it doesn't but has a 12V output I would do 2 at once.
If you only have 24V then do 4 at once.
I wouldn't have multiple parallel strings while you're trying to revive them.
I would definitely get them out of the boat in case of melting or fire. Anything could happen.
I really can't advise any more, you're in the land of the unknown with little chance of success. Try anything!
Have you got a hydrometer? SG is your best guide to whether anything is happening. Fully charged should be in the 1.24-1.28 region.
Good luck.
PS with batteries this old and maltreated no I would not mix new ones with them.
McSalty
New member
Sometimes when people are asking for advice, in reality they only want to hear what they would want to hear....
I, in this case was no exception - but, THANK YOU very much!, I think you have set my head straight!
Batteries, electric supply on a boat is one of the most vital issues and not a subject to take chances with.
Batteries that are F*****U* can gas, can spill acid all over the place, can blow up in your face and most of all: let you down when you'd need them most.
It was very intersiting to listen to what you had to say, I do appreciate you taking the time and investing the effort to explain something you obviously are an expert at and which is self-evident for you, to a stubborn old f**t like myself!
Highly! (and I mean it, because I lack that patience, *sigh*) Appreciated!
THANK YOU!
....anyways: Tomorrow I will write down how they are connected, disconnect them and remove them from the boat - followed by starting an online search where to find Trojan 6V Batteries in Mallorca, since I would preffer to replace them with the same (so I can use the old terminals, no cutting, no guessing or meassuring if and what others will fit the given space etc.) Wrote to Trojan 2 weeks ago with that very question, got a rather friendly reply that they will let me know - and since then: nothing. I'll ask them again.
But, that's a different story alltogether, so once again: THANK YOU!
I, in this case was no exception - but, THANK YOU very much!, I think you have set my head straight!
Batteries, electric supply on a boat is one of the most vital issues and not a subject to take chances with.
Batteries that are F*****U* can gas, can spill acid all over the place, can blow up in your face and most of all: let you down when you'd need them most.
It was very intersiting to listen to what you had to say, I do appreciate you taking the time and investing the effort to explain something you obviously are an expert at and which is self-evident for you, to a stubborn old f**t like myself!
Highly! (and I mean it, because I lack that patience, *sigh*) Appreciated!
THANK YOU!
....anyways: Tomorrow I will write down how they are connected, disconnect them and remove them from the boat - followed by starting an online search where to find Trojan 6V Batteries in Mallorca, since I would preffer to replace them with the same (so I can use the old terminals, no cutting, no guessing or meassuring if and what others will fit the given space etc.) Wrote to Trojan 2 weeks ago with that very question, got a rather friendly reply that they will let me know - and since then: nothing. I'll ask them again.
But, that's a different story alltogether, so once again: THANK YOU!
charles_reed
Active member
I fear you'll find Trojan have abandoned the "domestic leisure market" (about 2 years ago according to my reports).Sometimes when people are asking for advice, in reality they only want to hear what they would want to hear....
I, in this case was no exception - but, THANK YOU very much!, I think you have set my head straight!
Batteries, electric supply on a boat is one of the most vital issues and not a subject to take chances with.
Batteries that are F*****U* can gas, can spill acid all over the place, can blow up in your face and most of all: let you down when you'd need them most.
It was very intersiting to listen to what you had to say, I do appreciate you taking the time and investing the effort to explain something you obviously are an expert at and which is self-evident for you, to a stubborn old f**t like myself!
Highly! (and I mean it, because I lack that patience, *sigh*) Appreciated!
THANK YOU!
....anyways: Tomorrow I will write down how they are connected, disconnect them and remove them from the boat - followed by starting an online search where to find Trojan 6V Batteries in Mallorca, since I would preffer to replace them with the same (so I can use the old terminals, no cutting, no guessing or meassuring if and what others will fit the given space etc.) Wrote to Trojan 2 weeks ago with that very question, got a rather friendly reply that they will let me know - and since then: nothing. I'll ask them again.
But, that's a different story alltogether, so once again: THANK YOU!
In the miniature sizes that most boats use it is very difficult to find genuine deep-cycle/traction batteries, though golf-cart batteries come reasonably close.
In cost-efficient terms it's usually best to buy conventional, locally-made flooded lead-acid batteries, especially in the sticks. The advantage of "crude" batteries is that you can peer at the plates and choose on the basis that the one with the thickest plates will be the one to stand cycling to 50% charge, better than your super, flashy, expensive, sealed batteries.
As a guide:- real traction batteries (as in FLTs) will do about 1000 cycles, auto-batteries about 250.
McSalty
New member
Hmmm, hmmm....
According to my information (from Trojan directly) they still manufacture these "35TE" batteries .... and since I need 12 of them anyways......
Problem is where to buy/order them locally (Mallorca) or how/where to buy them elsewhere and get them to Mallorca at a reasonable price.
Am still hoping that trojan will have something to offer in this respect.
According to my information (from Trojan directly) they still manufacture these "35TE" batteries .... and since I need 12 of them anyways......
Problem is where to buy/order them locally (Mallorca) or how/where to buy them elsewhere and get them to Mallorca at a reasonable price.
Am still hoping that trojan will have something to offer in this respect.
McSalty
New member
Update:
Trojan was very helpful and I now suddenly did get a speedy answer. They do have a distributer in Spain who (also quite speedy) gave me a fair quote for 12 new batteries including delivery dockside to Palma.
Since whenever I am searching for answers forumposts pop up quite high in the rankings, for anyone having the same problem of wanting to replace Trojan Yacht Batteries in Spain and/or Mallorca, here is whom to talk to:
DAISA
Pol. POCOMACO, Parcela G-4
15190 La Coruña - España
( Tef. + 34 981- 297.000
Mrs. María Noche Boado was very helpful and speaks excellent English.
New Batteries have been ordered, the journey (adventure-trip?) can go on!
(Hope it's ok to post this information here?)
Trojan was very helpful and I now suddenly did get a speedy answer. They do have a distributer in Spain who (also quite speedy) gave me a fair quote for 12 new batteries including delivery dockside to Palma.
Since whenever I am searching for answers forumposts pop up quite high in the rankings, for anyone having the same problem of wanting to replace Trojan Yacht Batteries in Spain and/or Mallorca, here is whom to talk to:
DAISA
Pol. POCOMACO, Parcela G-4
15190 La Coruña - España
( Tef. + 34 981- 297.000
Mrs. María Noche Boado was very helpful and speaks excellent English.
New Batteries have been ordered, the journey (adventure-trip?) can go on!
(Hope it's ok to post this information here?)