Declining numbers of Sailors

When I was younger, we were time rich and cash poor

We were time rich because we worked set hours Monday to Friday, 9 to 5 if you were an office worker or 7:30 to 4:30 if you were on the shop floor. Overtime was entirely voluntary

Could Charles Stock have done what he did with Shoal Waters as a younger man if he'd been working anything up to 12 hour days with no set hours? Indeed, could I have done all the things I did as a young man (competitive dinghy sailing, gigging with bands, etc. etc.) if, as is very often the case today, I didn't know from one week to the next what time I'd finish work on a Friday and whether or not I'd have to work on Saturday morning?

Its not the cash that's the problem for younger people coming into sailing. It's the lack of spare time. Holiday time has improved for sure - we used to get four weeks a year and they were set in stone (factory fortnight in the summer, a week at Christmas and a week at Easter) - but we had every weekend free from 5:00pm on Friday to 8:00am (or whatever) on Monday.

Whether they're office based, on the "shop floor" or whatever, proportionally fewer people in their twenties and thirties have their weekends free than in my younger days. At the clarty end of the working stick they're expected to work whatever, usually anti-social, shifts their employer demands at very short notice and if they're trying to build a career they're expected to dedicate themselves to the job at the expense of all else

Owning a boat is really only worthwhile if you make more, much more, use of it than just your main holidays. And you've got to have time (assuming you're not well off enough to pay somebody else to do it) to maintain it. So you needs a decent number of spare "weekends" which you can reliably plan to spend on the boat.

So yeah, sure, someone in their twenties or thirties can probably afford, if they choose, to own an Anderson 22 or a Centaur. What they don't have is the time to spend on her to make it worthwhile. If you're only going to be able to spend a fortnight a year making good use of such an expensive asset, chartering is a far more attractive prospect

(We did the math on this back before we bought Brigantia some years ago and worked out that to make the cost of owning and keeping a boat of our own, we had to get a rock bottom minimum of 25 to 28 days use out of her a year. Otherwise, it would be cheaper to charter with the added advantage of being able to go somewhere new for our annual sailing fix every year. And I know a number of people who do just that who won't show up in any UK centric survey as sailors but sailors they surely are)

There's a whole lot of other considerations too, many already discussed on this thread and others of a similar ilk, but a lack of, or at least a perceived lack of, spare time is on of the biggest factors IMO
 
There's a whole lot of other considerations too, many already discussed on this thread and others of a similar ilk, but a lack of, or at least a perceived lack of, spare time is on of the biggest factors IMO

Excellent post and as to the matter of spare time and cash: last w/e I was talking to a chap (mid-30s) who had just sold his sailing boat in favour of a £500k+ mobo. Reasoning was that with time short and the general difficulty of setting-up and dismantling a sailboat -- and then travelling everywhere in between at 5-7kts -- he just couldn't make his w/e's work. His logic continued that with Southern England property prices still sky high (plus the various stamp duty / Council Tax issues) a second home was likely a poor investment. Given that he loves being on the water he reckons he's got a good compromise, and perhaps he does.

Guess Bob was right: The times they are a-changin'
 
While the absolute outstanding and unusual example has to be the Centaur at nearly 3,000, the like of which I doubt we'll see again - it had just the right mix to attract lots of newcomers to sailing, so was for a long time rated poorly because people had seen novices bumbling around in them

.

I can't work out why the A22 didn't sell more either. If anything their rig was easier to handle than a Centaur and they were much more manouverable too. They were an ideal boat for people who didn't know too much about sailing.

Were they overpriced?

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I think that the primary driver for sailing is a desire to get out on the water. It's something that is emotional not logical and, therefore, not always amenable to rational analysis. I was introduced to the water in a GP14 at the age of about 6 and never lost the delight of simply messing about in boats.

But for years kids, work and lack of cash precluded getting back on the water. Even being given a sailing dinghy didn't solve the problem, as there simply weren't enough free hours in the year to make use of it. So it all went away until suddenly the kids didn't want us and we had money to spend on things round the edges.

And I think that's what drives things now. Our sailing club is made up of either younger people, unencumbered by kids who form the backbone of the 'serious' dinghy racing fraternity or older people who either race older types of dinghies or are cruisers. There doesn't seem to be a significant proportion of thirty/forty year olds with kids. I think that, like my own children, their lives are filled with meeting their kids needs, not because they lack money but they do lack time.

If messing about on the water is what fires their rockets, then these families will tend to head overseas for charter or flotilla holidays. If they do have the money, then they will perhaps have a boat in a marina, because it's as near to turnkey as they can get. They aren't interested in fettling boats, they want to sail. If they have the money to buy a boat, then they'll probably have the money to use a marina and pay someone to do the work.

The older style of boat ownership typified by many on here where keeping the boat in working order is part of the piece and doing it all on a limited budget, accepting the downsides of swinging moorings and the like is not for these people. To keep their spouses on board, the boats need to be comfortable and have the comforts of home. To keep the kids happy, they need to be capable of providing things like charging facitlies for a multitude of gadgets. That dictates marina berthing with shorepower, shoreside facilities and restaurants and bars. Sure, the odd night at anchor or on a mooring buoy is fun but not all the time and certainly not in iffy weather. (A mate is now looking to sell his boat after taking his family out with a dubious forecast: they sat out a force 6 blow at anchor and the family has since refused to go sailing again.)

All that said, there's no shortage of sailing here in Falmouth, ranging from youngsters out in Optimists in all weathers to old farts in ancient boats like me.
 
Maybe it's a matter of priorities; it's very true I don't have a family with youngsters to support ( a serious decision I made long ago, I just think there are plenty of humans about already and didn't meet the right young woman at the right time to convince me otherwise ) - but when I had a pretty mediocre job a while ago and was expected to be as dedicated as the company owners making £squillions, giving up my free time - such a precious resource it has a very large price tag for me - my reply was rather predictable.

A good friend of mine is having a tough time at the moment after bad news from Doctors; you cannot value time for yourself, close family & chums too highly, it's worth a lot more than learjets and fancy cars.
 
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Eric Rose? Charles Stock? Bernard Moitessier? Roger Taylor? Forget it! Book your 'life-affirming' charter 'experience' in the Med now! You know it the 'real you'!

I was thinking very much the same yesterday evening while waiting in Dundee railway station (the only station in Britain which is below sea level) beside a big glossy poster for the next Clipper race. Adventure neatly prepackaged. No imagination required.
 
Probably more than one, whether they want to be or not ! :rolleyes:

I was struck by the French habit of marking the altitude above sea level of railway stations, don't think the UK do this - is there any use to this apart from casual interest to surveyors or canal builders ?
 
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Bru makes a very valid point above.
Working conditions have changed. We may have better statutory rights (for now) but zero hours contracts and obligatory flexible working are rife.
When we first had a boat, SWMBO was working for the civil service and I was teaching, and we got a huge amount of sailing done because we knew exactly when we had time off and could plan to use it. Now I work as a tour boat skipper on what is effectively a zero hours contract, and our own boat has barely left the mooring since I took on that job. I know that if I ask for some time off, not only will I lose those earnings, but another skipper will jump in my seat. My boss actually attempted to hire someone to replace me when I took some time off to go to a wedding, and I was lucky that the new guy never showed up, otherwise I may have come back to greatly reduced hours, if any at all.
There are plenty of days off, too many in fact, but they are useless because you get no warning of them and so SWMBO will be working or the boat is not ready, etc.
We are not contemplating selling up, but I do wonder if we would have got into sailing with our current work:life balance.
 
... when I had a pretty mediocre job a while ago and was expected to be as dedicated as the company owners making £squillions, giving up my free time - such a precious resource it has a very large price tag for me - my reply was rather predictable.

As has been mine more than once in the past. But I (we in most cases) had the luxury of being able to walk out of a job that demanded too much of my time into another that didn't (and employers knew it). Partly because I had marketable skills but mostly because there were plenty of jobs that paid well enough that didn't require giving up precious spare time.

I look around now and such jobs are few and far between at any level of employment

A good friend of mine is having a tough time at the moment after bad news from Doctors; you cannot value time for yourself, close family & chums too highly, it's worth a lot more than learjets and fancy cars.

A little unfair on the younger generation methinks! Never mind Learjets or even fancy cars, they're having to work longer hours often on changing and changeable shift patterns to earn less money in real terms just to afford the basic essentials of life compared to our situation 30 odd years ago

Which brings me to the second point I didn't come to in the last post - as I said, in my day we were time rich and cash poor. Now, the younger generation are time poor but often relatively cash rich. They may not have as much spare time as we had but they have the money to make the most of the holidays they do have

They also, contrary to an earlier suggestion, have more imagination and far greater opportunities to travel to exotic places and do exciting things

It takes a deal of enthusiasm and commitment to sailing to freeze ones bits off flogging an old slightly tired small yacht around the all too often bleak and miserable British coastline during the only fortnight you're going to get off this year. With even less exaggeration, I'm sure most of us have spent days on end of our precious annual holiday stuck in port due to inclement weather (we once lost all bar two days of an entire week on board stuck in our home port)

Why bother when you can charter in the Med this year, head to the Caribbean next year, go pony trekking in Peru, backpacking in New Zealand ... in fact, with a grand or three to spend each year and a passport the world is literally your oyster these days. If you're minded to adventure there is an almost inexhaustible supply of adventures to experience and plenty of young folk are so minded. And if you don't yearn for adventure so much, cheap flights and package holidays to warm sunny climes with sandy beaches and blue seas are ten a penny
 
Why bother sailing ?

Only Arthur Ransome and the other authors here could answer that.

As to why own a boat, I remember this one I think I first read in Yachting Monthly quite a while ago;

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A sailor takes his accountant chum for a trip.

The accountant looks around and says, " so, you spend X thousands on a boat you can only use at best 2 days a week ".

No, I use her 7 days a week ".

" How so ? "

" 2 days a week I sail her, the rest of the time I dream of her ".
 
Why bother sailing ?

Only Arthur Ransome and the other authors here could answer that.

As to why own a boat, I remember this one I think I first read in Yachting Monthly quite a while ago;

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A sailor takes his accountant chum for a trip.

The accountant looks around and says, " so, you spend X thousands on a boat you can only use at best 2 days a week ".

No, I use her 7 days a week ".

" How so ? "

" 2 days a week I sail her, the rest of the time I dream of her ".

But I think the why go sailing question could perhaps be rephrased as why go sailing in the UK?

As others have explained above, for someone who is time poor and who may get in 1 two week holiday and 5 or 6 weekends then chartering makes a huge amount of sense. Fancy a cat for a fortnight in the grenadines? No problem, then maybe some racing in the Solent? No problem. A gaff Classic in Devon. Yup. A day boat on the broads or the lakes? Yup. Nice mileage builder to Norway? When do you want to go.

Probably more experiences than I get bumbling around the Solent a couple of times a month for the 9 months she's afloat.

True you don't get to dream of your boat but you do get to passage plan somewhere different and wonder what your next trip will be like. That's certainly different to me dreaming about whether I get my anchor chain regalvanised or just replaced.

I like tinkering with the boat, trying to improve her but the alternative of spending a February weekend eating a nice lunch in a waterside pub with a roaring fire instead of being stooped over sloshing antifouling all over anything in range is bloody appealing sometimes.
 
Now, the younger generation are time poor but often relatively cash rich. They may not have as much spare time as we had but they have the money to make the most of the holidays they do have

Without ever being part of either of these cash rich or time poor generations, the cost of travel has dropped considerably making most UK activities less attractive. I can get to Malaga as cheaply as I can get to London.
 
Without ever being part of either of these cash rich or time poor generations, the cost of travel has dropped considerably making most UK activities less attractive. I can get to Malaga as cheaply as I can get to London.

And with no delays / customs/ border guards etc. And easily accessible / internationally recognised qualifications such as ICC nothing to stop you.

If you factor in the Internet and things such as latesail then someone without a boat can get to interesting places and sail there far more easily than anyone historically could even dream of.
 
I agree an ideal compromise would be to charter a good boat ( not a cat', for me ) somewhere far away and warm in the run-up between Christmas and launching, when it's too bloody cold to do anything on the boat ashore anyway...

However 100% chartering for a couple of weeks a year would be a very shallow, unsubstantial comparison to ownership to myself and all the boat owning chums I can think of - you get out what you put in.
 
However 100% chartering for a couple of weeks a year would be a very shallow, unsubstantial comparison to ownership to myself and all the boat owning chums I can think of - you get out what you put in.

All my boat owning chums like owning boats. All my boat chartering chums enjoy chartering boats. All my train spotting friends enjoy spotting trains.

Basically I think the charms of owning a boat are fading and much the same way that the charm of changing your own clutches (I still do it, but only on my classic cars) is fading. I think dressmaking is down, too.
 
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