Decline in sterndrive market?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Deleted User YDKXO
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AndieMac said:
It must be a country specific thing, OB's here are more expensive by around 30% in the 250 HP and above sector
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Actually, it sounds like Aus situation is peculiar, C.
It's hard to put an exact percentage on this comparison, but I'm pretty sure that if you consider the overall installation of say a 250hp propulsion, also in EU an o/b is fairly less expensive than a same power inboard engine mated to an outdrive...
 
I think outboards are more 'disposable' for lack of a better term. Much easier to repower 10-15 years down the line when parts become obsolete or technology moves on. That's the bit that would concern me too. I've seen the service costs for some of these modern four-strokes and I certainly couldn't justify close to £1k per annum to get a dealer service on a 250/300HP outboard! Yes you can self-service, but some warranties will give you double if you get a dealer stamp. If something big goes wrong that could be a big issue. The other factor is that the new outboards are designed for purpose which is both good and bad. The good is that they're optimised for the environment vs an inboard which is generally a marinised automotive lump. That latter factor has a big impact on parts cost due to economies of scale, but also means the base engine is usually well proven. There are pluses and minuses for both as with all things, but I suspect the sterndrive will be with us for a long while yet. I must admit I prefer from a boat layout and aesthetic perspective, but also for balance/economy at the smaller end of the scale and given a straight choice in the 18-35' range it would be sterndrive over outboards. As for pods, from what I've seen and heard thus far I personally wouldn't be in a hurry to go down that route for a long while yet. Thankfully my budget doesn't make that an option but if it did then it would be shafts and absorb the extra fuel costs! ;)
 
rbcoomer said:
I think outboards are more 'disposable' for lack of a better term. Much easier to repower 10-15 years down the line when parts become obsolete or technology moves on. That's the bit that would concern me too. I've seen the service costs for some of these modern four-strokes and I certainly couldn't justify close to £1k per annum to get a dealer service on a 250/300HP outboard! Yes you can self-service, but some warranties will give you double if you get a dealer stamp. If something big goes wrong that could be a big issue. The other factor is that the new outboards are designed for purpose which is both good and bad. The good is that they're optimised for the environment vs an inboard which is generally a marinised automotive lump. That latter factor has a big impact on parts cost due to economies of scale, but also means the base engine is usually well proven. There are pluses and minuses for both as with all things, but I suspect the sterndrive will be with us for a long while yet. I must admit I prefer from a boat layout and aesthetic perspective, but also for balance/economy at the smaller end of the scale and given a straight choice in the 18-35' range it would be sterndrive over outboards. As for pods, from what I've seen and heard thus far I personally wouldn't be in a hurry to go down that route for a long while yet. Thankfully my budget doesn't make that an option but if it did then it would be shafts and absorb the extra fuel costs! ;)
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I have to disagree on some of your points Rob. Whilst it may well be possible to spend £1k on servicing an outboard annually, my experience with a new Honda is quite the opposite. Leg oil and main oil is changed once a season (assuming 100 hrs is average). Oil Filter is from an Accord so £8 at Halfords. Impeller change every 2 years, fuel filter and perhaps bottom anode that sits in saltwater all the time. around £100 a year of DIY.

As i pull boat out to wash and antifoul annually there are no additional costs apart from a mornings servicing. I keep all receipts and make sure oil meets honda spec. I researched warranties before buying and honda have a good reputation in dealing with "major problems". Any competent person can do servicing as long as good records are kept.

The 6 year warranty is non declining i.e. if the block splits after 5 years and 364 days it's covered, there was a well-known recall on bf 130's where they overheated and warped the cylinder heads. Honda recalled all engines, replaced with modified parts then gave a further 10 year warranty...


The engines are proven as millions of Accords have been made. Whilst Honda are not sexy they have continuously improved their engines over the years hence their reputation for reliability. Compare this to the allegedly disposable Volvo D3...

In the end it's down to personal perception and choice, but the future is outboards by a long chalk in my view.
 
I think for the smaller stuff, the market has rebalanced towards outboards, and won’t go back to sterndrives anytime soon.
There are large numbers of smaller boats, so the change in sales £££ isn’t quite as large as the numbers suggest - the numbers of 35-40ft boats with outboards is still very small in the UK.
Even Golden Arrow have hedged their bets by supporting Honda outboards as well - this is probably the way forwards.
 
TBH, servicing a 300 Verado is pretty bloody easy if you follow the rules.

Oils changed every year, impeller every other year. Plugs and belt every two or three years, stat after about 5. The only pisser is the cost of the anodes, they've got you by the short and curlies.

One fault that gets my goat is the oil-cooler, they never fitted an anode and they do rot through. A good check if you're buying.

Other than that, outdrives are a dead weight to be avoided after the KAD/DPG combo. I'm a shaft drive bloke.
 
Read somewhere regarding the Honda S2000car engine ( same block used in Ob s )
1Million units out there ,in one form or another not one has blown up .
Also another stat - 1/2 the worlds internal combustion engines ever made are Honda,s —- think little bikes in SE Asia to get your head round that stat !

Anyhow good to read ^^^ they are straight in with a WW recall at the slightest sniff of trouble .
I think there 2,2 L block stuff is pretty bombproof in the sea or land variants .
I think around 550 cc / cylinder is pretty much the optimum size .
In evolution there’s a word called convergence,
You can start from different places but end up arriving at the same design , over time .
Check out the individual cylinder cc of the best engines , be 4 ,s 6. s V6, V 8.s 12 ,s etc between 500 and 600 is optimum.
Talking petrols btw .
 
Deleted User said:
Quote from editorial page in this month's Motorboat Owner (will I be banned for this?:rolleyes:)



I can understand why this may be happening in the US which is predominantly a petrol market, at least for smaller boats, but why should it be happening in Europe which is predominantly a diesel market? Cost? What about pod drives? Are they eating into the sterndrive market at the top end?
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Also in the US I presume many Marinas have Petrol Pumps whereas in the UK very few have Petrol Pumps as its mostly diesel.
 
Bouba said:
The problem with modern big outboards is there is no problem. They are superb pieces of kit. The attraction to builders like Beneteau is obvious, it’s so easy to make a boat without an engine, just a slot in the transom.
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I also suspect that manufactures would prefer outboards purely because of cash flow. Supply an Inboard engine and it has to be bought (and paid for) by the manufacturer during the build process, supply an outboard model the outboard can be fitted at point of sale (when they have the buyers deposit)
I would still want my next boat to be inboard diesel.
 
Jim@sea said:
I also suspect that manufactures would prefer outboards purely because of cash flow. Supply an Inboard engine and it has to be bought (and paid for) by the manufacturer during the build process, supply an outboard model the outboard can be fitted at point of sale (when they have the buyers deposit)
I would still want my next boat to be inboard diesel.
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I think VP do a credit line to the builders , they invoice once the boats sold .
So,s that’ was major dicider for say of Sunyprinline back in the old days when they were pumping out sterndrive boats over say Yanmar / MerCruiser or Yamaha or A N other engine + outdrive .

Vp,s slick marketing almost in a drug dealer pusher esq way getting there product out there , hooking the builders and creating a huge secondary cash cow the spares / service side draining the end user of cash .

I often wonder in global scheme of things which is the most lucrative for VP ?

Sales of new outdrive units - inc any losses from builders going Pop to be written off cos of the long credit line risk
Or
After sales “ support “ side
As the years roll by ?

Reason why I speculate, is I have a mate who sells planes .Fighter planes - military stuff .
Bit like boats the airframes base spec are £40M then there’s the options another £40m easily , taking a unit to about £80m each —- then the “support “
Sometimes he says they let them go at a seemingly low price - give away ,so,s the punter ( a foreign defence minister) thinks he,s got a good deal .But the REAL profit money spinner comes at the back end “ support “ over the service life of the plane. They will easily make up any “loss “ from the sticker price vey quickly from spares .
By that time there’s beena change of defence minister.So who cares ?

It’s just a case of getting a foot in the door before the French / Americans or any other war plane builder .

Once hooked you’ve got them .

I see a lot of parallels ,manufacturing and selling fighter planes and VP sterndrive s and selling to niche markets - trying to block out competitors.
 
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MapisM said:
Actually, it sounds like Aus situation is peculiar, C.
It's hard to put an exact percentage on this comparison, but I'm pretty sure that if you consider the overall installation of say a 250hp propulsion, also in EU an o/b is fairly less expensive than a same power inboard engine mated to an outdrive...
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You are correct regarding the Oz situation P, we always pay plenty for anything. Airline tickets purchased within our borders are very expensive, pretty much twice, compared to those purchased in our countries, flying to and from Oz.
Of course this relates directly to our base/minimum wage, which is quite high compared to other countries, especially the US.
Maybe it's the popularity of OB's in this country that drives the price so high compared to outdrives, they seem to charge what the market are prepared to pay.
 
rbcoomer said:
.......... As for pods, from what I've seen and heard thus far I personally wouldn't be in a hurry to go down that route for a long while yet....
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After three decades of many attempts to stop the uncontrollable porpoising, prop cavitation and cantilevering destabilising effects, it's better to leave the OB recessed into the transom ;)
 
AndieMac said:
After three decades of many attempts to stop the uncontrollable porpoising, prop cavitation and cantilevering destabilising effects, it's better to leave the OB recessed into the transom ;)
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LOL, amen! :encouragement:
Though the funny thing is that your statement also explains (sort of) why pods powered boats continue to be built and sold:
the fact is, most of the boaters who buy them would not understand anything you said, while they do get (and like!) joysticks! :D :p
Forumites with IPS powered boats being an exception, of course... :rolleyes:
 
I am in the trade

Twenty years ago:
The biggest Volvo Penta outdrive was the Kad 44 so 260hp so twin in a 38ft boat
The biggest leisure Volvo Penta was 480hp shaft drive
A big outboard was 175hp and two stroke

Today :
Volvo Penta outdrives to 400hp so 45ft sports boat
Outboards 350 and 400 hp mainstream and then "7 Marine" outboards now 627 hp but more importantly 4 stroke outboards and economical and reliable outboards.
Also Volvo Penta IPS now up to 1,000hp equivalent to a 1300hp engine plus 3 to 4 in a boat,

It is now a different ball game!
 
MapisM said:
LOL, amen! :encouragement:
Though the funny thing is that your statement also explains (sort of) why pods powered boats continue to be built and sold:
the fact is, most of the boaters who buy them would not understand anything you said, while they do get (and like!) joysticks! :D :p
Forumites with IPS powered boats being an exception, of course... :rolleyes:
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After buying two (yes, I wasn't content to make just one mistake) professionally built boats with the revolutionary "pod" design over the course of five years, creating all this extra room in the cockpit by hanging the OB back behind the transom, the compromise was of course the reasons I mentioned earlier.
Thankfully our national boat builders saw the errors of their ways and stopped producing them, but it hasn't stopped our local fishing fraternity from home building pods as a way to convert old outdrive powered boats to OB's and create more fishing room in the cockpit.....with rubbish results.
 
Hot Property said:
I've just bought a 23ft sports cruiser with a 200 verardo outboard. I like the fact that I can bring 95% of the engine out of salt water and then flush the internals with fresh water too. Servicing is oil, filter every year plus check fuel filter. Replace leg oil. Impeller is changed every 300 hours. Plug in a diagnostic laptop at mercury dealer if it misbehaves.

I have digital readouts covering almost everything from water pressure, fuel flow trim levels etc.

Having heard about some horror stories about stern drives plus risers on inboards I'm happy with my choice so far...

A friend has just bought a s23 sealine with a Volvo kad 32 so it will be interesting to see how service costs compare over time..
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What is it you have bought.

Dennis
 
Hot Property said:
An Italian boat quite rare in UK - a Saver 690 with 200 Verado.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d81KBl6YK70

This is a somewhat smarter/newer version with a 100hp outboard but you get the idea.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSkFKvSJfYs in glassy seas - but I have known the Solent to be like this on rare occasions.

It's my version of a bigger Fletcher GTO sports cruiser Dennis!
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Lovely Boat Nick. I had never herd of them before. I understand what you mean about the 'Larger Fletcher' I posted some time ago about this sort of boat with an outboard and here one is. Looks like it has everything you need for the smallest size of boat with all the essentials like galley and proper toilet etc but still properly trailable.

Now of course to the question will we see her at the rally in Devon

So I don't mess up this thread have you a thread about your new toy

Dennis
 
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