Decks again

[purplerobbie]

I have teak decks on my boat that leak.
I was going to clean them with a teak cleaning product then varnish them then cover the varnish with colean
On another thread someone said not to varnish them first use coleans primer first.

I was going to varnish them with a very thinned down first coat so it would get in the cracks then use progressively thicker coats. Do 3 or 4 with varnish then use the colean

My decks have been varnished before and there is still small patches of varnish on them. I assume I would have to take all these patches off before I use the colean primer?

If I'm going to clean the decks first could I use water and a scrubbing brush? Would that clean them?

If I used a pressure washer to clean them would that do any damage?

I know everyone says don't scrub or pressure wash them but if I'm going to varnish them after will it make any difference?

If I have to sand them will it be ok to use a belt sander? I have never used a belt sander are they more aggressive than an orbital sander.
I did a test patch with an orbital sander and if I need to do the whole decks with that it's months of work

Or can anyone recommend another product that will make my decks waterproof again?

Cheers Rob

 

[damo]

There is a very good article somewhere on the forums by tcm, about teak deck treatment, but FWIW here is what I know...

DON'T PRESSURE WASH - it gouges out the softer fibres and raises the grain

DON'T SAND - it shortens the life of the deck significantly. A previous owner of my boat has done that, and now most of the screws are showing because the teak is only half as thick as it was.

Teak is fine without any treatment - that's why it used in the first place. As an oily wood it doesn't require any preservative treatments, and varnish won't adhere very well anyway.

Your decks are probably leaking because
a) the caulking needs replacing
b) the adhesive base has failed and the strips are lifting
c) the plugs covering the screws are failing

Why anyone should want to drill thousands of holes in perfectly good decks, and spend thousands of pounds adding weight to the boat, then spend hundreds of hours looking after it...?

Teak decking looks and feels lovely when it is in good condition, but as you can gather I am not a great fan. Mine will be stripped, but first there is the engine.... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[purplerobbie]

Yes but to start recalking and fixing the screws and so on is months and months of work and at great cost.
The best thing to do would be to rip them off and glass over them but again that is a massive job
It is teak over ply so i need to do something before it starts rotting the ply.
I have a friend who has done the varnish then colean route and has good results with it.
Just with someone saying that i should use the colean primer and not the varnish i thought i better ask.

Rob

 

[damo]

But just painting over the teak won't stop the leaks, and if strips have already lifted then there will be water underneath which you won't be removing.

Recaulking and plugging shouldn't be too costly, except in your time. There have been several mag articles and tips over the last couple of years about tools (usually homemade) and techniques for what you need, and a lot of it can be done with a router and an old file tang.

Have a look at the Sikaflex website - IIRC they have leaflets about techniques and materials required.

Say 1 sq m a day - how long would that take?

 

[howardclark]

a one pot varnish will eventually flake, even under Coelan. Are you going to use a 2-pot? I've used Coelan for about 4 years and don't really see why you are using the varnish rather than a primer.
The purpose of sanding is to clear away the weathered surface and provide grip for the next coat. For Coelan they recommend a 80grit. A belt sander is OK if you don't lose control of it. There are makes with a base that prevent you from digging too deep (Hitachi I think). Its important to make sure the seams are in good condition before you coat - varnish or Coelan will not make a bad deck good

 

[ccscott49]

DO NOT Varnish! Use the system as it says to use it and use the primer, you are wasting your time varnishing first, the varnish will lift and take the coelan with it, the primer IS the UV resistive part of the system, the gloss covering is not UV resistant.

 

[Blueboatman]

Unless you are going to address the cause of the leaks you are in my opinion wasting your time effort and money-sorry.
Check the obvious stuff first-poor bedding under hatches and deck hardwear and especially any stantion bases,then have a go at removing a couple of deck fasteners (screws) where you think the water is getting in,bearing in mind that once water gets between the teak and the ply it can travel some distance before finding a way down into the boat...
You may just need to remove all the screws,epoxy the holes and rescrew and fit new teak dowels over the top,a job which could be tackled in stages whilst afloat.
Ideally and with unlimited patience,time and money you might contemplate removing all the deck hardware,the whole teak deck,then inspecting and epoxysheathing the whole ply sub deck and then either just paint that or reattach the teak using NO fastenings just sikaflex for bedding and seaming.

 

[purplerobbie]

The decks dont look in bad condition apart from the old varnish peeling off. but there isnt a great deal of that only at the edges and the bow.
I was told that colean was uv stable thats why it dosent peel off?
does anyone know of a web site for them? i have googled it but with no luck
The boat is 34ft by 11 with flush decks so there is a lot of deck
Rob

 

[purplerobbie]

[ QUOTE ]

Ideally and with unlimited patience,time and money you might contemplate removing all the deck hardware,the whole teak deck,then inspecting and epoxysheathing the whole ply sub deck and then either just paint that or reattach the teak using NO fastenings just sikaflex for bedding and seaming.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is by far the best way to do it. but can you imagine how much work would be involved?
If i could do a small patch at a time i would have a go at this but i cant
Plus it would cost a fortune.
The decks dont look that bad I dont think replacing the calking would make them any better. There are plenty of screws showing.
There is nothing worse than a wet boat
Rob

 

[ccscott49]

Are you reading these posts??? If you are read again, please! I refer you to my answer above!

 

[Eastermaid]

I have used Coelan on several boats recently on decks King plank and margin plank with great success, one tip is only use Coelan on bare wood and use primer you are waisting time and a lot of money if you varnish first, I have spent many hours stripping masts back to bare wood to apply this product. as I am sure many others have. We wish it could be applied over varnish but it cant with any lasting success.

 

[Porthandbuoy]

Coelan explained.

It is the dogs danglies of wood coatings. Bloody expensive but worth every penny. Mariposa's decks and coachroof leak no more thanks to this stuff. BUT, preparation is the key.

 

[damo]

You say the decks don't look that bad, then you say the screws are showing - sounds like your deck is well past its sail-by date /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[purplerobbie]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you reading these posts??? If you are read again, please! I refer you to my answer above!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes i am
If i put a uv stable product under a non uv stable product the top coat will lift (or peel or crack or whatever)
so if the primer is uv stable but the top coat isnt, wont it suffer in the sun?
I thought the whole product was uv stable?
Rob

 

[purplerobbie]

[ QUOTE ]
You say the decks don't look that bad, then you say the screws are showing - sounds like your deck is well past its sail-by date /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I know it sounds a bit stupid but the decks do look in good condition. They are flat, they dont look like they have been scrubed out and the calking looks in good condition.
There isnt any raised edges around the hatches or deck fittings to give the impression of major wear but yet there are screw heads showing?
If anyone can host a picture i'll take some and people can make there own mind up
Rob

 

[Blueboatman]

Hi Rob.
Here are a couple of descriptions lifted from the sale blurb for a Saga 40 and a Saga 36.
I would want to know whether the plywood was covered with grp or epoxy/sheathing before the teak was attached-are you prepared to remove one (of the worst offending )plank to expose the ply and sheathing or teak bedding ?
I would deduce that if the ply was properly shethed you are one lucky chap and your leaks are confined to water ingress via failed screwholes and deck hardware through bolts.
Read up on how to punch out dowel heads cleanly and remove screws,epoxy the holes in the ply subdeck and rescrew and plug.Any protruding plugs can be trimmed flat using a sharp chisel.The newness of the dowels will quickly fade with the passage of time and water over the decks.
This really is a job you can do in stages afloat !.
1.......''Very heavily moulded hull in excess of Lloyds 100A1 with bonded and encapsulated heavy stringers and frames. As a preventative treatment, in 2001, the hull was peeled and epoxy treated. The deck is glass sheathed marine ply over laminated deck beams. Very substantial deck gear including bronze and 316 stainless steel fittings''.....
2.......''Heavily laid up grp hull with a cast iron keel fastened to the hull with steel keel studs and fastening nuts. The deck is two layers of 3/8" marine ply, laminated and fastened over laminated, mahogany deck beams. This is fully epoxy resin and glass matting sheathed topped with deck paint. This forms a very practical, long lasting and low maintenance deck. The deck design gives good side deck width and a great working foredeck''.

 

[purplerobbie]

Hi
Just out of noiseyness where did you get the sales blurb from?
But mine isnt a Saltram.
It is a Saga 34.
It was made by Charles Ward who is still building boats today he even remembers building my boat! He said they are in the middle of a move but when he gets a chance he has pictures of it under construction he will send me.
I phoned him up a couple of months ago and he said that it isnt epoxy sheathed (Doh!!)
But he did say that the teak was between 20 and 25mm thick when it was fitted.
I think it says in the brokers blurb that it was epoxy sheathed.

Rob