Decided now I need ac on board

[mrangry]

I have now decided that I would like ac on board to run a coffee machine and possibly a small toaster. I also require a new ac switch panel and came across the Victron easy plus which seems like a pretty compact all in one type unit. Has anyone any experience of these units or indeed have any words of wisdom on this subject they can offer before I go any further?

 

[RupertW]

Right or wrong, I just put a lidded male socket on the stern and led it to a galvanic isolator and circuit breaker isolator switch then to a junction box with spurs to the main cabin and 3 of the 4 sleeping cabins with an ordinary double switched (with LED) socket from B&Q in each one. It’s worked for 12 years without problems although the lead to one of the fore cabins does worry me from time to time as it goes through the bilges and is the one I should eventually reroute.

So just plug in the stern when we are in marinas (which is basically at the start and end of each month or two long trip) and use normal UK plugs and devices. Of all the good things the least used is the hot water element as we rarely want any heat to our showers and the most used is the IKEA £40 induction hob which sits on top of the gimballed 2 ring stove and saves on so much gas particularly as we tend to precook the time intensive parts of our favourite meals and vacuum pack them as they then last at least 6 weeks in the fridge ready for adding anything fresh and reheating.

 

[lektran]

Our boat has an EasyPlus, installed by some previous owner. It has worked fairly well but I suspect it is starting to show its age (~2018). We rarely get the stated 70A charging and it has occasionally attempted to overcharge our lifepo4 batteries by continuing to raise the voltage past the set absorption level. Our processor is also outdated now so some of the victron lifepo4 BMS models aren't compatible any longer. So one way or another it is aging out.

But with a galvanic isolator and ideally one of those remote control panels, you end up with quite a good and flexible system.

1600VA has been enough for us. While you can't run multiple high draw items at once, we've had no issues running a cook top, hair dryer, vacuum or power tools individually. You just need to keep an eye on the power rating of the equipment you bring onboard.

 

[KompetentKrew]

I think you'd probably favour the Multiplus over the Easyplus - I think Multiplus is a newer design and the basic features seem very similar?

I have the "new shape" / plastic bodied Multiplus 1600. It has some nice features, such as the ability to limit the amount drawn from the shore power. My shore power is limited to 8A, so I have the Multiplus set to draw no more than 7.9A but I can boil a 3KW kettle by drawing the other 1300W from the batteries.

You'd need to give more info to get really useful help. How many watts do you intend to draw from it? Is the intend for filly off-grid use of these appliances? How big are your batteries, and what type are they?

The Victron "community forum" is good. Probably better than here for discussing selection of their products.

 

[lektran]

The main advantage of the EasyPlus over the MultiPlus is that all the breakers are mounted directly in the case, so you don't need a separate breaker box. Just an easier installation. Otherwise it's functionally identical to the 1600 Multi

 

[mrangry]

I think you'd probably favour the Multiplus over the Easyplus - I think Multiplus is a newer design and the basic features seem very similar?

I have the "new shape" / plastic bodied Multiplus 1600. It has some nice features, such as the ability to limit the amount drawn from the shore power. My shore power is limited to 8A, so I have the Multiplus set to draw no more than 7.9A but I can boil a 3KW kettle by drawing the other 1300W from the batteries.

You'd need to give more info to get really useful help. How many watts do you intend to draw from it? Is the intend for filly off-grid use of these appliances? How big are your batteries, and what type are they?

The Victron "community forum" is good. Probably better than here for discussing selection of their products.

Thanks for your answer.

I have 4 x 120ah agm batteries in the house bank and really just looking for occasional use of a mains powered small coffee machine, toaster and possibly single induction hob (not all at once). Its use would be when not plugged into shore power as I would otherwise just fit an ac panel and run a couple of sockets.

I am probably more drawn to this unit as it has the ac control panel built in and I have been watching this one on ebay Pardon our interruption... at £263.

It also has the smart charger, although I already have a 30a Victron smart charger but could sell that.

My only real concern is that if the unit fails I will lose the functionality of all three.

 

[KompetentKrew]

If you have the Multiplus (or presumably the Easyplus?) you don't need a changeover switch - I guess it has an automatic changeover switch built in; if the power goes out it just starts drawing off the batteries; when the power comes back it starts charging again. The power here has been going off pretty regularly recently, I guess with the damp weather, and everything just keeps running uninterrupted.

I would think that 480Ah of batteries would handle a 1KW load ok. I'm not sure. I remember some previous threads (which I can't now find) about sizing of lead-acid (inc AGM) batteries for an inverter, and maximum recommended loads based on their Ah. Is it 1/5th or 1/10th? If you're running 1KW load off 12v batteries then that would be about 80A, which is about 1/6th of their Ah. I personally wouldn't run a toaster if I could get acceptable toast under the grill instead.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Thanks for your answer.

I have 4 x 120ah agm batteries in the house bank and really just looking for occasional use of a mains powered small coffee machine, toaster and possibly single induction hob (not all at once). Its use would be when not plugged into shore power as I would otherwise just fit an ac panel and run a couple of sockets.

I am probably more drawn to this unit as it has the ac control panel built in and I have been watching this one on ebay Pardon our interruption... at £263.

Not what you need and over priced anyway.

It also has the smart charger, although I already have a 30a Victron smart charger but could sell that.

My only real concern is that if the unit fails I will lose the functionality of all three.

For shore power, fit a socket, which goes to a garage type consumer unit, fitted with an RCD and some MCBs, the fit your sockets etc. You will also need to fit a galvanic isolator.

If you want just an inverter fit a suitable sized Victron one, but you would need a changeover switch. Or fit an inverter/charger, in which case you won't need a changeover switch. For an inverter/charger i would fit a Victron Multiplus 2.

There are particular requirements for fixed inverter installations, in particular, Earthing.

 

[PaulRainbow]

If you have the Multiplus (or presumably the Easyplus?) you don't need a changeover switch - I guess it has an automatic changeover switch built in; if the power goes out it just starts drawing off the batteries; when the power comes back it starts charging again. The power here has been going off pretty regularly recently, I guess with the damp weather, and everything just keeps running uninterrupted.

I would think that 480Ah of batteries would handle a 1KW load ok. I'm not sure. I remember some previous threads (which I can't now find) about sizing of lead-acid (inc AGM) batteries for an inverter, and maximum recommended loads based on their Ah. Is it 1/5th or 1/10th? If you're running 1KW load off 12v batteries then that would be about 80A, which is about 1/6th of their Ah. I personally wouldn't run a toaster if I could get acceptable toast under the grill instead.

Decent AGM batteries should be OK at 0.5C, so 240A for the OP, that's about a 2500W inverter flat out. A 1kw inverter will draw about 100A, not 80A. You obviously need to be aware that the batteries would be down to 50% in an hour, but it would be very rare to run a 2500W load for long.

I'd be inclined to fit a 2000W inverter or inverter/charger.

 

[KompetentKrew]

A 1kw inverter will draw about 100A, not 80A.

I went with 1000/12, is the remainder inverter inefficiency, please?

 

[PaulRainbow]

I went with 1000/12, is the remainder inverter inefficiency, please?

Yes, i've found that 100A DC per 1000W AC is pretty accurate in the real World.

 

[lustyd]

run a coffee machine

I know it’s off topic but since the electrical has been answered well…have you seen these? Very good very easy coffee and available for capsule or ground coffee. Amazon.co.uk

 

[RunAgroundHard]

What you want is very similar to what I have. A simple set of 240V sockets in the galley, a water heater circuit, a socket to the cockpit locker and a fridge circuit. They are wired to a small consumer unit with RCBO type circuit breakers.

What I have:-
- Shore Power cable.
- Shore Power inlet socket in cockpit coaming.
- Galvanic Isolator.
- 4 x bay consumer unit. It came with inlet breaker RCBO type. I had to buy breakers for each circuit.

If fitting 240V sockets, and you use mobile devices, it’s worth getting the type that has a USB socket so you can charge devices.

My battery charger just plugs into the socket in the cockpit, which is also useful for power tools. I have corded power tools, hence to me it’s useful.

I recently changed out my consumer unit for a new one, and the cost with one inlet RCBO was only £29.99. Note that the inlet RCBO will probably be way oversized as it’s sized for a house. Easy to replace with a small rated RCBO.

All in all a very simple installation and low cost.

 

[mrangry]

What you want is very similar to what I have. A simple set of 240V sockets in the galley, a water heater circuit, a socket to the cockpit locker and a fridge circuit. They are wired to a small consumer unit with RCBO type circuit breakers.

What I have:-
- Shore Power cable.
- Shore Power inlet socket in cockpit coaming.
- Galvanic Isolator.
- 4 x bay consumer unit. It came with inlet breaker RCBO type. I had to buy breakers for each circuit.

If fitting 240V sockets, and you use mobile devices, it’s worth getting the type that has a USB socket so you can charge devices.

My battery charger just plugs into the socket in the cockpit, which is also useful for power tools. I have corded power tools, hence to me it’s useful.

I recently changed out my consumer unit for a new one, and the cost with one inlet RCBO was only £29.99. Note that the inlet RCBO will probably be way oversized as it’s sized for a house. Easy to replace with a small rated RCBO.

All in all a very simple installation and low cost.

I have fitted a similar set up to a friends boat but I dont see any mention of an inverter as it is this that bumps the price up

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Right, Ididnt appreciate that you wanted that. I don’t have one.

 

[NO Felice]

Do it good and do it right:
I would install an Victron Multiplus with Inverter 3000 W. Bulid all around this with your AGM batteries. You will have good power for coffe maker, small Microwave, hot water ... If you like (or already have) add 2-3 PV pannels (good, reliable, professional +150Wpp) and you will have some additional charging during your sunny days.

 

[mrangry]

Do it good and do it right:
I would install an Victron Multiplus with Inverter 3000 W. Bulid all around this with your AGM batteries. You will have good power for coffe maker, small Microwave, hot water ... If you like (or already have) add 2-3 PV pannels (good, reliable, professional +150Wpp) and you will have some additional charging during your sunny days.

I had a look at the Multiplus but at nearly £900 I am struggling to justify the expense to myself, although I may give in, or wait for a second hand unit.

I forgot to mention I have 400w of solar on a rear arch which is currently running through CTEK D250SE and CTEK smartpass 120s. I got these a while back as a package of batteries, solar and diesel heater from a friend cheaply.

At the moment I simply have an extension lead/drum led through the companionway hatch which is becoming a pain when alongside. I am currently (no pun intended) rewiring from the shore power socket, galvanic isolator, an ac panel (Pardon our interruption...) and a couple of double sockets in the galley with a view to adding an inverter later.

That ac panel also seems expensive for what it is but it looks a little more aesthetically pleasing than a garage consumer unit as I need to cover a rectangular hole at the nav station where the old ac enclosure used to be.

 

[Lightwave395]

I'm amazed by how much money can be spent to get a fancy cup of coffee

A salutory lesson on shorepower...:

I've just completely rewired the 20+ year old shorepower wiring on my new boat as it seemed overly complicated and took up half the switch panel, not to mention it was very old... there was just one single euro 220v socket with signs of overheating under the chart table into which the previous owner plugged a six way extension lead leaving cables all over the floor !

I put in a new stern socket for a newly made up shorepower cable, a new cable through to a 'garage consumer unit' in a locker with an RCD and 2 X 16A breakers, from which one cable went to three new double sockets, one each to the galley, the aft and forward cabins. The other breaker was cabled to the immersion heater and the battery charger with each having their own 13A switched fused spur with a neon.

When I finished congratulating myself on a 'proper job' I found the main shorepower breaker randomly tripped taking out the entire pontoon !
I went over everything, even wondering if someone else's boat was causing it and couldn't see any issues over two subsequent visits to the boat, in the end I conceded this was now above my pay grade and engaged a locally recommended French marine electrician who came down to the boat last week and fixed it (took him all morning)
He eventually found the new RCD in the consumer unit was faulty (refunded by Toolstation yesterday), changed it and now we're all good, he even blessed my installation

Onward to the Lithium project next, only remaining decision is one large battery or two smaller ones ( currently leaning towards one large for simplicity) There's now an acrylic sheet over the old AC switch panel where my new BMV-712 will fit nicely, there won't be an invertor to be seen, a level of additional cost and complexity I don't need

My clean up -out with the old:




In with the new:

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I am also re-wiring my 230V system ... went with a Multiplus II inverter charger running off Li batteries .... looks like this



Re-Purposed the original shore power distribution board which entailed a mod to the labelling to warn that it now runs off the inverter, not just shore power.



AC distribution looks like this ...

 

[NO Felice]

I am also re-wiring my 230V system ... went with a Multiplus II inverter charger running off Li batteries .... looks like this




AC distribution looks like this ...

View attachment 206983

Great - and you are one that draws some good "plan" and an installation scematic: That is the only thing for starting - and good success.