Deben Bar - a near miss?

[Javelin]

I sailed my Pandora back from Southwold to Ipswich yesterday and en-route I saw the horrific sight of a long keel yacht of around 30ft stuck on the bar outside Felixstowe Ferry.

I guess I was a mile or so off shore and with a F5 Easterly with a moderate sea running it struck me that that was one entrance you really need to avoid in those conditions.

I heard on the VHF that they eventually got off an hour or so later but given the way the seas were breaking over her and the extreme angle she was laying I doubt whether she got off unscathed.

I guess sights like that act as a timely reminder of what can go wrong so very quickly and that if the forecast F6 had arrived it could have been a good deal worse.

 

[dylanwinter]

The Ore bar - is it as bad?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCAgM2aLzdA

 

[Amulet]

It's easily done

Oops! by Graham Cameron Himself, on Flickr

 

[LONG_KEELER]

I sailed my Pandora back from Southwold to Ipswich yesterday and en-route I saw the horrific sight of a long keel yacht of around 30ft stuck on the bar outside Felixstowe Ferry.

I guess I was a mile or so off shore and with a F5 Easterly with a moderate sea running it struck me that that was one entrance you really need to avoid in those conditions.

I heard on the VHF that they eventually got off an hour or so later but given the way the seas were breaking over her and the extreme angle she was laying I doubt whether she got off unscathed.

I guess sights like that act as a timely reminder of what can go wrong so very quickly and that if the forecast F6 had arrived it could have been a good deal worse.

As an aside, I heard this week that a sailor fell off his keel boat at the entrance to the Deben and his wife managed to get him back in. Well done wife !

 

[Amulet]

As an aside, I heard this week that a sailor fell off his keel boat at the entrance to the Deben and his wife managed to get him back in. Well done wife !

Stand by for the tirade - would you have exhibited the same admiration if the story was that the wife fell overboard and the husband hauled her back aboard?

 

[Javelin]

What surprised me on this incident was that considering the conditions it was asking for trouble to attempt this entrance.

Half tide, a steady 20knts on shore with a choppy sea with a strong wind warning having been broadcast in a long keel boat that must have drawn at least 4'.
Perhaps he was a local and familiarity breeds contempt or maybe it's just me being slightly holier than thou.
But being good friends with our local lifeboat crew I know that they would take great pleasure in telling me that it was just another example of daft yachties.

 

[LONG_KEELER]

Stand by for the tirade - would you have exhibited the same admiration if the story was that the wife fell overboard and the husband hauled her back aboard?

Would depend on the displacement value of the wife and the righting arm of the husband , divided by the freeboard of the boat over the square root of his age.

I reckon an ex Russian weightlifter would make a good sailor's wife.

Good for the winchin'

 

[MrCramp]

What surprised me on this incident was that considering the conditions it was asking for trouble to attempt this entrance.

.

The entrance does get very very bumpy when you have wind over tide, particularly on the ebb with the wind in the North East round to South East, and I hate it so, but if you follow the correct course you should be OK. You do need to watch your transits carefully. On the flood the tide is running down the coast and you get taken south, on the ebb you can suddenly find you are further north than you intended to be.

 

[PaulGooch]

As an aside, I heard this week that a sailor fell off his keel boat at the entrance to the Deben and his wife managed to get him back in. Well done wife !

Heard this on the VHF. She sent a Mayday out. We only heard the CG side of the conversation, as we were off Gunfleet at the time. There were responses from a couple of other boats, which i assume were in the Deben area. It was all over in 10-15 minutes. We were glad to hear all were safe and well.

 

[Santana379]

Half tide, a steady 20knts on shore

20kts onshore wind would be no problem at all at half tide if it was flooding. The ebb is quite a different matter. Last Saturday for instance the contrast in the state of the water at half tide ebb in the morning (fairly choppy) and half tide flood in the late afternoon (smooth) was amazing - both in an SE4.

As Mr Cramp points out, looking over one's shoulder is very important. I've seen so many boats way off line this season just because they keep steering towards the next buoy regardless of where the tide is moving them. I expect they think I've got it wrong when I don't pass them closely port to port.

A few years ago I took the Nancy Blackett in over the bar in an NE6/7 at the top of the tide. Conditions at sea were dreadful - the worst I've been in along there, with short seas breaking over the deck repeatedly. We had all three reefs in and were making only 2.5kts SOG. I was very concerned about attempting the bar, and called ahead to John White the Harbourmaster to ask about conditions there. His reply was "If you're managing out there then you'll manage the bar"! He was, as always, right.

On another occasion with up to 51kts true windspeed from the SW the bar was surprisingly easy, (on the flood).

However SE5/6 combined with a spring ebb is not for the faint hearted.

Generally, whilst there's a risk of familiarity breeding complacency, it should hopefully breed a degree of confidence to deal calmly with conditions on the bar that might unsettle a newcomer, and it should also provide greater knowledge.

One of my pet hates is following a boat in over the bar in choppy conditions that's going slowly. To my mind it's so much easier to control the boat and stay in position with a decent amount of way on, and overtaking is usually not an option.

When all's said and done, having crossed the Deben bar 350 odd times in the last decade, I treat it with a lot of respect, and as a consequence all too frequently find myself cancelling a day's or weekend's sailing based on what the weather forecast probably means on the bar.

As for the Ore entrance, my lack of confidence and knowledge mean I probably wouldn't attempt it in more than a F4, onshore or offshore!

 

[Leighb]

As an aside, I heard this week that a sailor fell off his keel boat at the entrance to the Deben and his wife managed to get him back in. Well done wife !

As I understand it, they were towing a dinghy, he managed to get himself into this and thence back on board his boat, anxious minutes for his wife I am sure. Fortunately there were lots of other boats around including a felixstowe ferry rescue boat I believe.

Might have been a different story if it had been dark and noone else around.

 

[FullCircle]

20kts onshore wind would be no problem at all at half tide if it was flooding. The ebb is quite a different matter. Last Saturday for instance the contrast in the state of the water at half tide ebb in the morning (fairly choppy) and half tide flood in the late afternoon (smooth) was amazing - both in an SE4.

As Mr Cramp points out, looking over one's shoulder is very important. I've seen so many boats way off line this season just because they keep steering towards the next buoy regardless of where the tide is moving them. I expect they think I've got it wrong when I don't pass them closely port to port.

A few years ago I took the Nancy Blackett in over the bar in an NE6/7 at the top of the tide. Conditions at sea were dreadful - the worst I've been in along there, with short seas breaking over the deck repeatedly. We had all three reefs in and were making only 2.5kts SOG. I was very concerned about attempting the bar, and called ahead to John White the Harbourmaster to ask about conditions there. His reply was "If you're managing out there then you'll manage the bar"! He was, as always, right.

On another occasion with up to 51kts true windspeed from the SW the bar was surprisingly easy, (on the flood).

However SE5/6 combined with a spring ebb is not for the faint hearted.

Generally, whilst there's a risk of familiarity breeding complacency, it should hopefully breed a degree of confidence to deal calmly with conditions on the bar that might unsettle a newcomer, and it should also provide greater knowledge.

One of my pet hates is following a boat in over the bar in choppy conditions that's going slowly. To my mind it's so much easier to control the boat and stay in position with a decent amount of way on, and overtaking is usually not an option.

When all's said and done, having crossed the Deben bar 350 odd times in the last decade, I treat it with a lot of respect, and as a consequence all too frequently find myself cancelling a day's or weekend's sailing based on what the weather forecast probably means on the bar.

As for the Ore entrance, my lack of confidence and knowledge mean I probably wouldn't attempt it in more than a F4, onshore or offshore!

Good precis.

 

[davidej]

A week or so ago, I was anchored in the river near the entrance waiting for the tide to rise enough to attempt an exit when a local boat came past. I followed him and got out much earlier than I would have expected, taking a track near the eastern bank. I saw a yacht, much nearer the beach which had grounded, but he soon got off on the rising tide

 

[Neil_M]

You must be the Pandora that sailed past me outside the Whiting Bank then...

I dropped the main and sailed under part rolled jib in order to await enough water to cross the Bar. When I arrived at WB Haven there were waves breaking across the blue yacht which was way off the entry track. I too feared the worst but with assistance from Volunteer and a launch they refloated her and she made her own way out to await more tide before re-entering just behind me at around 18:00.

A very lucky escape for someone. Sticking to the line the conditions were actually fairly benign on the flood tide with the wind mostly with tide in the entrance.