Death at sea

[Magic_Sailor]

Can anyone clarify the responsibilies of a skipper if they are unfortunate enough to have a crew member die at sea?

I thought that ythe skipper is duty bound to bring the corpse back with them - presumably so that the authorities can do whatever is necessary.

Magic

 

[davel]

What are you planning then?
/forums/images/icons/wink.gif

Dave L.

 

[IanPoole2]

\'Cor wot a pong

Could be a bit smelly if someone died mid ocean, especially in the tropics.
Cruise liners (I think) off load the corpse at the next port of call

 

[wpsalm]

Re: \'Cor wot a pong

Book of common prayer burial at sea....

 

[tcm]

But out of national coastal waters, the skipper on the boat IS "the authorities". So, although tyou can't heave ho and chuckem out in the solent, you certainly can givem a nice buruial at sea if you are in the atlantic. Otherwise you'll all catch summink horrible from heaving a dead body for company. MBY did an article about it. You need to note it down in the log book. eg.

12.30 Jack finally passed away.
12:45 Tied some chain round him, draped a flag over him, said a few words and let him slip into the deep.
13:00 Lunch. Extra portions, bit more room in the cockpit, and we can tell jokes about fat people too!

 

[sailbadthesinner]

Re: i kn ow i should not

but that was funny
good job i am isolated in my own room have been ROFLFHO

I never eat on an empty stomach. i like to hear the food splash as it hits

 

[Roberto]

From mcga site

Procedure after death
It is usually possible to retain the body until it can be examined by a pathologist at a port. Every
effort must be made to retain and preserve the body until the next port of call can be reached.
It is vital that as much evidence of what happened is gathered and preserved:
n use a camera to take photographs which might illustrate how the death occurred, this will
be helpful in any investigation.
n Clothing. Strip the body of all clothing, if possible without tearing or cutting it. Make a
brief description of each article and note any initials or names on the garments. Any papers,
wallet, money or other articles should be noted on the list. Any articles which are wet
should be dried, but not laundered, and should then be put into plastic bags, sealed,
labelled, and kept in a safe place for handing over to the British Consul, police or other
authorities at the next port. When handing over clothing and other articles, check each
item against the list and get a receipt from the person to whom they are delivered. Any
other possessions of the deceased should be treated similarly. If there is going to be little
delay before reaching port, leave everything undisturbed.
examine the body. If it is absolutely essential to bury the body before it is examined by a
pathologist examine the body carefully (photographs are very helpful) and record the
following data:
n race;
n skin colour;
n approximate age;
n height – straighten out the body with the legs fully extended. Make two marks on the deck,
one in line with the heels, the other in line with the top of the head. Measure and record
the distance between the lines;
n development of the body – note whether fat, thin, wasted, muscular etc.;
n inspect the head and face – record the length and colour of the hair; note the eyebrows and
describe facial hair. The complexion should be described (for example, sunburned; pale;
florid; sallow). Record the colour of the eyes and the shape of the nose. Open mouth and
examine the teeth, noting whether they are sound, decayed, or missing. Dentures should
be removed, cleaned and placed with the other articles kept for future examination;
n inspect the rest of the body – record all birthmarks, moles, scars, or deformities from
injuries. Note the exact position of all scars and describe their length and width.
[...]
Disposal of the body
Retention for post-mortem examination
Whenever possible a body should be retained for post-mortem examination or for burial ashore.
For the sake of the deceased person’s relatives and to preserve the body in the best possible
condition, if there is going to be any delay in reaching port, thoroughly wash and dry the body all
over. Comb out and part the hair and give attention to finger nails. Straighten the arms and legs
and interlock the fingers over the thighs. Tie the ankles together to keep the feet perpendicular.
Empty the bladder by firm pressure over the lower abdomen. The body should then be put into a
body bag and kept in a refrigerator or cold store which will have to be set aside for the purpose.
The aim is to store the body at approximately 4°C, it should not be frozen. An alternative, if near
port, is to lay the naked body on ice in a bath and to cover the body with lots of ice.
Burial at sea
Only in the most exceptional circumstances (and where there is no suspicion of foul play) might
it be appropriate to proceed directly to dispose of the body at sea. Next of kin and/or the
seafarer’s employing company should always be consulted where possible and advice should be
sought on an appropriate commital service or procedure. For burial at sea it is not necessary to
do more than to lay the body on a flat surface, straighten the legs and arms and interlock the
fingers over the thighs. The hair should be brushed off the forehead, the face washed, and the
jaw secured by passing a bandage under the chin and over the top of the head, where it may be
tied or clipped. The body should be sewn into a shroud.
Bear in mind that the shroud needs to be made of a very strong material and weighted
sufficiently to ensure the rapid sinking and permanent submersion of the body. There should be
three or four slits or openings in the material to allow the gases of decomposition to escape and
prevent flotation due to trapped air.
Burial should not take place in soundings in any part of the world.
After preparation the body should be placed upon an improvised platform resting on the
ship’s side rail and a suitable trestle or other support, covered by an ensign, secured to the
inboard edge of the platform. Wooden blocks screwed under the platform and resting against
the ship’s side rail will prevent the platform sliding outboard when the inboard end is raised to
allow the body to slide from under the flag into the sea. It is very important to ensure that the
whole operation proceeds smoothly and respectfully without unseemly mishaps. If the ship is
small and there is a heavy sea, precautions must be taken to ensure that the body will not be
prematurely lost and will not fail to drop cleanly into the sea at the right moment. This may
warrant fastening guide rails on the platform. The seafarers allocated to perform the disposal
must be carefully briefed. At the words of the Committal, and on receipt of a discreet signal,
they must raise the inboard end of the platform to allow the body to slide from under the
ensign into the sea.
Record the event in the official log book with the exact time and position of burial.

 

[tillergirl]

It's been a while since I investigated murders now being fully committed to retirement and sailing but I recall that there is an offence of failing to notify the Coroner of a death and on land you can't bury anybody without some bits of paper from the Coroner. A Coroner can hold an inquest into the death of a UK national dying outside the UK so I would think that since the vessel is UK 'soil' (unless registered elsewhere I suppose) then you better tell HM Coroner ie via the police. Which one, well tell the most convienent, ie where you land. It does make me wonder whether the laws that permitted burial at sea in sail only times still exist. Even if they do, I suspect my former colleagues will not regard you as the captain of a ship entitled to do your own burials! I think if you die on a Cruise Ship you get stuck in the Fridge until return to the home port.

I remember we had some trouble with a Russian plane who landed at Heathrow with the co-pilot who allegedly had committed suicide in the toilet compartment. The Russian's were going to take him back and not tell anyone and started talking about Russian soil on the plane etc. In the end it was investigated at Heathrow only because no one would allow the plane to refuel otherwise!

I seem to remember a charming tale that the reason that there were always three light keepers in lighthouses was because once when there were only two on a remote lighthouse somewhere just after the change of crew (3 months stint), when one died. There wasn't anywhere to put the body and no way to contact anybody (this was before radios etc), so the survivor hung the body out of the top window to try to attract the attention of a passing ship. By the time someone took notice, the survivor was pretty gaga and got investigated for murder. Can anybody confirm this?

 

[Sybarite]

Re: i kn ow i should not

Being relatively new to these fora I wish somebody could give an explanation of the acronyms that are flying about.



You know of course that the definition of a forum is a twoum + a twoum.

 

[DepSol]

Rich has an amusing story about this, tell em Rich

Dom

2003 is going to be a good year for me

 

[Guest]

Go on Rich.....

 

[tcm]

Re: i kn ow i should not

"rolling on the floor laughing my f**** head off"

 

[jimmie]

That\'s a shame .. Jack was such a nice lad

Mr Top cat Man, I'm so sorry to hear about Jack. I hope he did'nt suffer too much in his final hours although I suppose life had become a bit of a trial for him especially after the scandal. I always take the view that there's always someone else worse off than yourself never mind how bad it seems at the time. I always think "Cutey" or "HOO" and that cheers me up. I'm having a kitkat break from digging salt at the moment but I think I might make a break for it this evening, there's one of these lage troop transporters near here that I might manage to borrow. Toodle pip and set up some WKD for me at the LIBS ...

/forums/images/icons/blush.gif<font color=blue> Jemmzie </font color=blue>/forums/images/icons/blush.gif

 

[martinwoolwich]

Re: Death at sea on a cruise liner

many years ago (20 odd) I worked on a cruise liner sailing out of Sydney. One of the crusies made up a part of a world tour sponsored by a famous (over there) womens magazine which took over total occupancy of the ship. The tour was very expensive and included a six week cruise. Most of the people were well past retirement and it was a common saying that people came onto the XXX XXX world cruise to die.

This may or may not have been true but what is a fact is that we used to store passengers who had passed away into the ships empty meat freezers. When they

 

[martinwoolwich]

Re on a cruise liner part 2

sorry mouse button trouble.

Anyway once the freezer was full it was common to have a burial at sea. Between 02:00 and 04:00 crawling out of the disco or piano bar, it was not unusual to see a little procession of Staff Captain, Ships Doctor, Ships Chaplain and two sailors, wheeling a body, draped in a greek flag (ships registry), to the stern of the ship for burial at sea.

I personally saw this myself on three occassions and I know it happened many more times than that

 

[stubate]

Respect and lack of

i suspect that this post was started because of the article in YM about the guy in the ARC who lost his brother.
if he happens to be looking at this forum how do you think he will feel about some of the "light hearted" jokes and subject contents ?
stu

 

[Magic_Sailor]

Re: Respect and lack of

Stubate

I post my original below again to demonstrate that there was no light hearted undertaking on my part - it was a genuine question. I thought twice or thrice about posting at all - and I specifically did not mention YM. My recollection of advice given to me by an experienced yachtmaster instructor was that the law insists on bringing the corpse to shore come what may to avoid legal action against the skipper. I need not go into detail as to why. I have not meant to cause offence but this is serious and worth discussing.

"Can anyone clarify the responsibilies of a skipper if they are unfortunate enough to have a crew member die at sea?

I thought that ythe skipper is duty bound to bring the corpse back with them - presumably so that the authorities can do whatever is necessary."

Magic

 

[tillergirl]

Further to my earlier suggestions, I see Roberto posted as I was typing away. I would have to say that I would treat the advice there to strip the body with some caution. Firstly, its going to be very difficult to do in a yacht and secondly any investigation is going to want to see the body etc as unaltered as possible. My former colleagues would, I think have viewed it as very suspicious if the body had been 'tampered' with in this way irerspective of whether death was caused by an accident or natural causes.

If you are coast hopping, clearly the body can be retained until reaching port. If you are in the middle of the atlantic, retention might be pretty unpleasant - but I don't think any yachtsman/woman has the right to bury at sea. The examples of the cruise ship might mislead here. Bear in mind that they have a medical officer who I would assume is qualified to certify death (you wouldn't be however obvious death is - even at obvious scenes of death, a doctor is always called to certify that life is extinct). I still don't known how they could certify cause of death (which is the point of a Coroner's Inquest) since doctors will only do this if they have previous knowledge of a fatal disease but the example given would be operating under Greek rules since that was the flag of the ship. Preserve the scene as best as possible, record events in the log (especially events leading up to the death ie illness, pan-pan calls etc), inform Coastguard asap. In VHF or other radio range, there would be a presumption that help is sought where there is time.

 

[clyst]

Re: Respect and lack of

I agree that your original post did not appear to be in bad taste and I also agree the it is worthy of discussion . Any skipper can be faced with such occurance whether coastal sailing or ocean crossing. I for one would not know what is the correct procedure (except call the CG ) and doubt if many others who use these forums would either! What if your crew slipped O/B even if flat calm I doubt if one man could recover the body on board what do you do?? tow the body behind the boat?? Anchor it ?? I dont know !! (and thats not meant to be funny. If thats offended any one Tough!! its a fact of life and sailing .) maybe someone should produce a reference card similar to the mayday procedure stickers .

Cheers

Terry

 

[rich]

It's not really that amusing, at the time it was a serious matter.......
I was doing occasional skippering trips for an elderly gentleman who had been an active politician and was also very religious. He was by now in his eighties and in a wheelchair, so I would take the boat to France or UK (from Jersey) and then he would meet me there and have a little cruise, usually with some of his family on board. However this particular time he insisted he wanted to come with me to England and sail up the Thames, and then moor outside the Houses of Parliament.
I was really worried about the trip being too much for him and asked his secretary what I should do if he passed away on board.
she told me to seal him in the aft-cabin , not tell anyone, and go straight to the nearest British port and then report to the police, but definately not to a French port as they didn't want the French to get their hands on him.
Fortunately he backed out of the trip and met me instead on the pontoon outside the H of P with an armed police escort.
He died a couple of years later, fortunately not on board.

rich )