Day Skipper Vs ICC

[vjmehra]

I've checked out the RYA website, but am slightly unclear on something...

I am currently doing my Day Skipper shorebased course, I have done the Competent Crew Practical and am going away at the end of this week to do my Day Skipper practical, however the training provider just contacted me and asked whether I would like to do an ICC assesment aswell/instead.

Is it possible to do an ICC without obtaining a day skipper qualification first and if so is this advisable? I'm under the impression that they are essentially interchangable, but am I mistaken in this belief?

Many thanks in advance...

 

[nickd]

You can do an ICC assesment or you can get Day Skipper and then apply for an ICC from the RYA using your day skipper cert as proof of proficiency.
I believe that and ICC is valid for 3 years but a day skipper cert is forever so you acn then use DS to reapply in 3 years time.
Cheers
Nick

 

[Flying Penguin]

Day skipper practical is a very good course for the basics, the ICC assessment is just that, an assessment.

If you want the training, do the DS course then fill in the form for the RYA to issue you an ICC.

If you feel you are at DS level already, do the assessment if you have no other way of proving competency. They won't be training you on this.

By the sound of it, you should be looking to do the DS course as you don't sound like you feel you are at post-DS course level (otherwise you wouldn't have dropped £600 on the DS practical course!). Don't do both as it's not necessary, once you have DS you can apply for the ICC with your DS cert.

I suspect it's the training provider assuming you'll just do one after the other without questioning.

Also, ICC is valid for 5 years.

 

[Tranona]

The Day Skipper qualifies you for an ICC which is free if you are an RYA member. It is valid for 5 years and renewed automatically. If you want to go into certain European inland waterways you will also need to pass the CEVNI test and get your ICC endorsed.

You can also take the ICC test separately, but it covers less than Day Skipper. It tends to be taken by expererienced people who just need the ICC, for example to charter in certain countries abroad.

Best to get the Day Skipper and then apply for the ICC if you plan to go abroad - it has little value other than that.

 

[marklucas]

The Day Skipper qualifies you for an ICC which is free if you are an RYA member. It is valid for 5 years and renewed automatically. If you want to go into certain European inland waterways you will also need to pass the CEVNI test and get your ICC endorsed.

You can also take the ICC test separately, but it covers less than Day Skipper. It tends to be taken by expererienced people who just need the ICC, for example to charter in certain countries abroad.

Best to get the Day Skipper and then apply for the ICC if you plan to go abroad - it has little value other than that.

Indeed, ICC is a really just a paperwork exercise to provide an internationally accepted certificate - last school I worked at it was a £10 extra to get an ICC endorsement for a successful DS candidate (which went directly to the instructor).

I have one just in case a jobsworth asked for it - but it looks and is far less forge-able than my YM ticket. And guess what, the cost of RYA membership is exactly the same as the cost of the ICC for non-members - coincidence not!

 

[Angele]

The Day Skipper qualifies you for an ICC which is free if you are an RYA member. It is valid for 5 years and renewed automatically.

I don't think it renews automatically. At least mine didn't.

Fill in a new form, send it off with the old one and a new photo. At least it was free, cos I'm an RYA member (although only because of inertia ), but it wasn't automatic.

 

[Tranona]

It is automatic in the sense that you are reminded and there is nothing further to do (except pay if appropriate), and it cannot be withdrawn.

 

[ctva]

Do the Day Skipper as others have said. You only need the ICC if going abroad.

All the info is here and don't let the training center con you!

http://www.rya.org.uk/infoadvice/boatingabroad/icc/Pages/icc.aspx

 

[capnsensible]

Indeed, ICC is a really just a paperwork exercise to provide an internationally accepted certificate - last school I worked at it was a £10 extra to get an ICC endorsement for a successful DS candidate (which went directly to the instructor).

Sheesh, no wonder people loose faith with the RYA when some schools cook up such a blatant rip off

 

[Ariadne]

So you get an ICC/Day Skipper which gives you a 'command Endoresment' up to 25m with a Day Skipper/ICC 'qualification'.

Explain to me why you need/want a YM certificate for the same qualification????

 

[onesea]

Sheesh, no wonder people loose faith with the RYA when some schools cook up such a blatant rip off

+1

So you get an ICC/Day Skipper which gives you a 'command Endoresment' up to 25m with a Day Skipper/ICC 'qualification'.

Explain to me why you need/want a YM certificate for the same qualification????

I got mine as it suited my lifestyle at the time... It has been usefull in a professional sense since, well provided occasional drinking tokens...

If you have a fair experience and knowledge and are not looking to use it professionally, it is a good question I think.

 

[prv]

last school I worked at it was a £10 extra to get an ICC endorsement for a successful DS candidate

Sheesh, no wonder people loose faith with the RYA when some schools cook up such a blatant rip off

What's the rip-off?

I did a Dazed Kipper course before ICCs were widely known. When I wanted to get the ICC (talk of me joining my parents on a charter and being nominal skipper as the one with the paperwork) I had to pay £45 to the RYA to get it. If I could have got one by adding £10 to the DS fee instead, that would have been a good deal, not a rip-off.

Unless you're talking about the £45 DS->ICC conversion cost being a rip-off, which I could understand, but that's hardly the schools' fault.

What point have I missed here?

Pete

 

[rotrax]

Sheesh, no wonder people loose faith with the RYA when some schools cook up such a blatant rip off

I thought it had been made clear many times on thers forum's that the RYA is the governing body for watersports and the non compulsory training in the UK and is the body which issues on behalf of our Government the ICC to applicants. The RYA do not charge the £10.00 fee-a sailing school does.The RYA has no influence on the charges levied by sailing schools-they will be judged by the consumer on quality, service and price like any business. As to the coincidence of cost, I understand an ICC can cost far more in other countries. I dont believe it is a rip off-it is probably an admin charge passed on by the school to the instructor who probably has to fill the forms out and pass them on. As the ICC is free to RYA members who have day skipper or above. The sailing school is in a position to waive this charge,but that would be a matter for them, not the RYA.

 

[capnsensible]

The RYA do not charge the £10.00 fee-a sailing school does. I dont believe it is a rip off-it is probably an admin charge passed on by the school to the instructor who probably has to fill the forms out and pass them on. As the ICC is free to RYA members who have day skipper or above. The sailing school is in a position to waive this charge,but that would be a matter for them, not the RYA.

It is purely a rip off extra charge by the school. Admin charge???? they are having a laugh.

All the school does is fill part of the front page in and stamp it, takes all of 11 seconds. Schools dont even have to do that these days, just go to RYA website, download and fill in form, your Day Skipper Practical Course Completion certificate is numbered. That allows you an ICC with no test. Simple.

The certificate also gives you a fiver off RYA membership so you get the ICC at that cost too, as in join RYA for less and get ICC.

Admin charge, pah.

 

[prv]

All the school does is fill part of the front page in and stamp it, takes all of 11 seconds. Schools dont even have to do that these days, just go to RYA website, download and fill in form, your Day Skipper Practical Course Completion certificate is numbered. That allows you an ICC with no test. Simple.

So who pays the £45 or thereabouts for the ICC?

Pete

 

[Tranona]

So who pays the £45 or thereabouts for the ICC?

Pete

Non members. "Free" as in part of the annual subscription for members. Non believers join and pay a year's membership fee the year their ICC is due for renewal. Suits the RYA as every year there are new people who do this which swells the number of members - even they are "members" only every 5 years.

 

[Solitaire]

So who pays the £45 or thereabouts for the ICC?

Pete

The person applying for the ICC. The curent cost is actually £40. But free if you are an RYA member.

If you already hold a DS practical ticket then all you do is take a copy of the certificate and send it off with the form. A school should not charge anything for the issue of the paperwork. In fact there is no need for the instructor/school to sign the form at all if a recognised certificate.

I submitted 11 applications to the RYA yesterday and had an email back to say they had all been processed by the afternoon. I took a picture of each applicant and emailed them through. My charge? Nil, part of the service.

 

[capnsensible]

Thank you Solitaire, I rest my case!

 

[prv]

Non members. "Free" as in part of the annual subscription for members.

Sorry, missing the point (maybe I wasn't clear).

I was talking about the joint "DS and ICC" service that some schools apparently do for a tenner on top of the DS price and which, for some reason, "capnsensible" considers a rip-off. He described how easy it was for the school to do the ICC part of the paperwork, presumably implying that the £10 is a rip-off for so little work. I was asking who (if anyone) pays the £40 in this combined case.

(To avoid confusion, let's ignore the case of RYA members who get it for free. I doubt that many people doing Day Skipper courses will be members in any case.)

Pete

 

[vjmehra]

Cool, sounds like Day Skipper makes more sense then as if required I can get the ICC anyway, thats what I thought, but the RYA website wasn't overly clear (or maybe I didn't dig deep enough). Thanks for claryfying!