Day Skipper Course...In The Sun

[colind3782]

Sounds like a pleasant idea but wouldn't you learn more doing it somewhere with a more challenging environment? Somewhere with strong tides and winds, and plenty of ColRegs situations, eg the Solent.

Bit like learning to drive in London as opposed to a quiet country town

There was no shortage of wind in Gib. On the night sail to Ceuta we had 3m waves and strong winds coming down off the rock. Nearly knocked down when one of the crew was a little tardy letting go the mainsheet

 

[Garold]

Jolly Partot and Allabroad seem pretty busy here in Gib. They seem to both keep going through the winter.

The weather here is changeable to say the least - 25knots of wind sometimes with rain one day, and summer breezes of 10knots with shorts and t shirt weather the next.

We also did a couple of weeks in La Gomera in Nov 2015, one sailing one walking. The weather there was definitely hotter, but the winds were equally flukey. We had a couple of days with no wind. And coupled with 30+ knots in the accellaration zones. Canaries are good to experience some strong winds because you can usually find them most days in the acceleration Zones.

Canaries and Gib both have tidal currents so you should get that experience. Both have easy day sail destinations so course calcs should be interesting and experience varied in each.

If you want best weather, it has to be Canaries. Otherwise, contact a few schools and see which one you 'connect' with.

Another variable may be the cost of flights to get there. Winter flights to Gib can be very cheap. Wife and I just paid <£100 return to Luton for the two of us for mid Feb flights.

Garold

 

[Serin]

Sounds like a pleasant idea but wouldn't you learn more doing it somewhere with a more challenging environment? Somewhere with strong tides and winds, and plenty of ColRegs situations, eg the Solent.

Bit like learning to drive in London as opposed to a quiet country town

Good advice, I think. I sometimes wonder about the far flung RYA schools. I've had two people sailing with me who had done courses in the sun, I wasn't very impressed. One told me he wanted to practice his colregs, so I tried to get him to take some relevant decisions. First opportunity he seemed a bit perplexed so I asked him what tack the other boat was on. His response - "eh?"

I can't draw general conclusions from a couple of examples, but I do agree that learning in likely home waters has a lot to recommend it.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Aegean sailing school on Aegina has some very good reports and Skippers it was run by Melody of this parish.

 

[Melody]

Thank you for that. Our first group course will start on Sunday 12 March, so if that isn't too late for you, I'd be happy to send you details. Just PM ME.

From January 2017 there is no distinction in the RYA certificate you get, whether you learn in tidal or non-tidal waters. This brings the RYA into line with other international sailing schemes. It does mean that you will have to have the same level of tidal theory as if you were taking a course in the Solent, though ... and you'll be tested on it.

I'd be horrified if any of our students didn't know what tack their own or another yacht was on, by the way, but, unfortunately, not everywhere has the same standards.

There are two points of view about doing a Day Skipper course somewhere challenging. If you are going to do 90% of your sailing in the Solent or an area with strong tides, then I'd agree completely that it makes sense to learn there. But if you plan to sail in various places, it isn't necessarily an advantage to pick somewhere difficult to start with.

In the same way that it's easier, and gives you more confidence, to learn to ski on a Blue run, rather than a Black, if you remove some of the complexities you can really concentrate on basic boat and sail handling. While Solent sailors may be excellent at dealing with tides, I've seen a few of them make a right mess of Med mooring, or even normal anchoring, for instance.

The best advice is to choose a good school in whichever part of the world you fancy. Then gradually expand your knowledge and skills by getting experience in as many other areas as you can.

 

[Tranona]

Good advice, I think. I sometimes wonder about the far flung RYA schools. I've had two people sailing with me who had done courses in the sun, I wasn't very impressed. One told me he wanted to practice his colregs, so I tried to get him to take some relevant decisions. First opportunity he seemed a bit perplexed so I asked him what tack the other boat was on. His response - "eh?"

I can't draw general conclusions from a couple of examples, but I do agree that learning in likely home waters has a lot to recommend it.

As you will see from several posts above, some hot destinations can be very demanding. Others, for example the Ionian in mid summer is very benign. You can say the same about some locations in the UK. Not all locations (or indeed times of the year) even in the UK can offer equal challenges. It is up to the the instructor to provide the best instruction and challenge given the conditions and for the examination to test whether the candidate has met the outcomes of the programme.

No different from any other qualification where it is impossible to ensure equal conditions - such as the driving licence cited by parsifal.

Remember also that not all candidate will ever sail in the so called "challenging" UK waters. For example those doing their course in the Solent are likely to make a pigs ear of mooring stern to with a cross wind in a Greek harbour - as demonstrated regularly by first time charterers including those with RYA certificates. In the same way those having done their practical in non tidal waters will be challenged the first time they encounter tides for real However they have to learn and be tested on the principles and those that understand the principles should have no problems putting them into practice.

While there is some merit in taking the course in the waters you are going to sail in regularly, the course outcomes are the same wherever you take so successful candidates should have enough of the basics to be able to deal with the differences in sailing locations.

 

[Uricanejack]

Good advice, I think. I sometimes wonder about the far flung RYA schools. I've had two people sailing with me who had done courses in the sun, I wasn't very impressed. One told me he wanted to practice his colregs, so I tried to get him to take some relevant decisions. First opportunity he seemed a bit perplexed so I asked him what tack the other boat was on. His response - "eh?"
I can't draw general conclusions from a couple of examples, but I do agree that learning in likely home waters has a lot to recommend it.

My personal feeling if someone has the wisdom to take a course they are well ahead of those who don't. Regardless if the sun shone upon them or not. I would tend to agree with not being surprised a graduate of a basic sailing program. Some time later was not up to my particular expectations. I don't think I can blame it on the sun or lack of sun. It's just a fact of life. Most of what is covered in a short course is quickly forgotten.
It's a start. You need follow up with experience to retain and enhance what is gained by the course. So I don't have high expectations. I find it usually comes back quickly. I just accept as is and help provide additional experience. Some of it sticks, some of it doesn't.

 

[Serin]

My personal feeling if someone has the wisdom to take a course they are well ahead of those who don't. Regardless if the sun shone upon them or not. I would tend to agree with not being surprised a graduate of a basic sailing program. Some time later was not up to my particular expectations. I don't think I can blame it on the sun or lack of sun. It's just a fact of life. Most of what is covered in a short course is quickly forgotten.

I agree about the wisdom of getting some formal instruction. What concerned me was not the sun, but the distance from the regulator of the courses. I have a good friend who is an RYA coach and head of a well reputed training organisation. He is an advisor to other training organisation, but his own is still pretty tightly and regularly inspected. How well are the distant schools regulated, I wonder?

As far as I am concerned, to have forgotten such a fundamental consideration for applying the collision regulations a couple of months after a formal Day Skipper course is not impressive.

 

[capnsensible]

I agree about the wisdom of getting some formal instruction. What concerned me was not the sun, but the distance from the regulator of the courses. I have a good friend who is an RYA coach and head of a well reputed training organisation. He is an advisor to other training organisation, but his own is still pretty tightly and regularly inspected. How well are the distant schools regulated, I wonder?

As far as I am concerned, to have forgotten such a fundamental consideration for applying the collision regulations a couple of months after a formal Day Skipper course is not impressive.

Take a course in anything and basic stuff is often forgotten without routine practice. You can hardly blame the school for that......

Overseas Recognised Training Centres, like all UK schools are required to be inspected annually. The cost of travel and lodgings are paid for by the school.

The appointed Inspectors have in depth experience and are stringent in applying the rules.

All areas of operation are scrutinised, everything from safety policies, risk assessments, bookings and complaints procedures through staff training and material condition of the vessels as well as the conduct of courses afloat and ashore.

IIf you wish to learn more, there is plenty of information freely available on the RYA website. The centre inspection form is there.

If you are interested in more details, I can respond by PM if you prefer. Have been doing this for twenty years so got a bit of background!

 

[ex-Gladys]

As far as I am concerned, to have forgotten such a fundamental consideration for applying the collision regulations a couple of months after a formal Day Skipper course is not impressive.

This is one of the reasons why I believe that delivering theory courses over the length of the winter rather than 5 days, particularly for older folks, is more effective... You tend to go over stuff more times and it seems to get engrained better

 

[andyo]

Did mine a few years ago with RUSailing, in Lagos on the Algarve. Very sunny, very good school and boats, would thoroughly recommend Rob, Jules and Patrick. They have a Facebook page.

 

[Poignard]

I did my Day Skipper course about 20 years ago with John Goode's Southern Sailing School at Southampton. It was a fantastic week. It was fairly late in the year and the weather was bloody awful. The instructor (Charles somebody or other) kept us busy all the time. We did lots of night sailing, marina manouvering, navigation, blind navigation, mob drill, ColRegs, sail handling, anchoring and mooring under power and sail. One day we went to Poole Harbour to practise going aground and getting off again. The school had a fleet of of yachts including one in reserve in case one got damaged! The instructor made us do everything and wasn't afraid to let us try things. I don't think he touched the tiller throughout the entire week. Until the final evening, when we went to a pub for a meal, tuition was continuous; when we weren't underway the whiteboard came out and we were shown the theory behind what we were doing. By the end of the week we were all pretty well knackerd!

I can't remember what the course cost but it was worth every penny.

 

[capnsensible]

By coincidence, John Goode assessed me for my instructor ticket about twenty years ago. Top bloke.

 

[Uricanejack]

This is one of the reasons why I believe that delivering theory courses over the length of the winter rather than 5 days, particularly for older folks, is more effective... You tend to go over stuff more times and it seems to get engrained better

I thought the theory and practical were separate. the theory being a pre requisite. leaving your choice on how you took the theory, class room, on line, or correspondence.
I cant see why doing a evening class or on line course and then heading off to the sun for the practical side of things wouldn't be good enough.
I can see, zero impute. Followed by 5 days on a boat as being less effective overall, with some of the material easily forgotten. Particularly the boring bits like col regs. Regardless of location.

I suppose the problem is a combination of cost and time. To take a course requires time. Most of us have busy lives and not a lot of time.

 

[ex-Gladys]

I thought the theory and practical were separate. the theory being a pre requisite. leaving your choice on how you took the theory, class room, on line, or correspondence.
I cant see why doing a evening class or on line course and then heading off to the sun for the practical side of things wouldn't be good enough.
I can see, zero impute. Followed by 5 days on a boat as being less effective overall, with some of the material easily forgotten. Particularly the boring bits like col regs. Regardless of location.

I suppose the problem is a combination of cost and time. To take a course requires time. Most of us have busy lives and not a lot of time.

I was only referring to the theory, as the original point was about forgotten Col Regs - which is Theory... Of course the Practical is a 5 day course, but Theory isn't a pre-req, but it is a good idea....

 

[Serin]

I was only referring to the theory, as the original point was about forgotten Col Regs - which is Theory... Of course the Practical is a 5 day course, but Theory isn't a pre-req, but it is a good idea....

I must say, if you can get through a day skipper practical course without the application of any "theory", such as the colregs, even at the most basic level, then things must have changed a lot since the days I used to teach sailing for a living.

Oh, and if the colregs are so "boring" (as Uricane J seems to think) that it doesn't matter if you remember them or not, then I despair. In fact, one of the most important bits of practice for anyone planning to skipper a boat. But maybe that explains why there is so much rubbish posted on these forums about those regulations. Maybe things really have changed that much?

(Incidentally, the person I mentioned also had a part share in a Wayfarer, so there was no excuse for this strange amnesia)

 

[Paul_S123]

Just an update....sorry Scotsail, but the thought of shivering for 5 days in the Clyde compared to 5 days in the Canaries for the same money was a no brainer. I am booked with our Cptn Sensible for a week in Lanzarote at the end of January.

Thanks to cheapoair, the flights were even cheaper than the diesel I use to get up to my boat up in the West Coast.

 

[Uricanejack]

Enjoy the course. Bon Voyage

 

[aquaplane]

I coped with my DS course despite it being 10 years since I did the theory. I did help First Mate do homework when she did the course over 3 weekends.

My crew struggled after an 18 month gap between theory and practical courses which may have spoilt the course for the other participants. It was very full on and not much fun. I must get back to Falmouth to cruise, what we did in 5 days wasn't cruising.

But we don't navigate in Scotland, we pilot and go with the flow. A depth and state of tide is handy for anchoring but to he nearest meter is good enough.

 

[Uricanejack]

Its unfortunate you, your mate or your crew. Felt that way at the end of the course.

My opinion might be a bit out of sync with some. Of what makes a good sailing course. It should not be an endurance test. It should be fun.
You will learn and retain a lot more. if the experience is enjoyable and fun.