Day Skipper and Epilepsy - a problem?

[breezer5012]

Does anyone know if there is any issue with someone diagnosed with temporal lobe epliepsy doing a day skipper course? Fits are more like vivid day dreams but with brief loss of conciousness, but are very infrequent - 9 in total but over two mornings 18 mths apart. Not medicated as there doesn't seem to be a need. One centre approached so far in Torquay asks the applicant to sign a disclaimer saying they don't have epilepsy. Is this standard? And if so, is there anyway round it?

One other question - it it a requirement to have attended and passed the theory course before doing the practical? Paul aready has the knowledge of the theory part but hasn't learned it from an RYA course!

Thanks /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Landale]

My advice is talk to them - I have MS I'm now retiring because of it at 51 after 23years of being diagnosed. In the last five years I've done my DS and done the ARC - ask and explain the situation - I've never then found a problem.

Good luck /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

 

[Solitaire]

Hi - you would need to declare the matter on our heath declaration forms but it would not preclude anyone doing the course. A question I would ask though is the person allowed to drive?

As far as having the Day Skipper shore based qualification prior to doing the practical; while it is not actually an official requirement, we would spend time discussing the theoretical knowledge. We do not encourage people to undertake the DS practical course if they cannot meet the theory requirements - it is a practical course and we do not have the time to explain the basics of CTS, EP, DR or what constitutes a Lat and Long or how to read a tide table and work out tidal heights.

Hope that helps.

 

[Kawasaki]

Hi Anne,
Second question first.
Because I feel it is more simple to answer.
If Paul has grasped the Theory part ,I don't think this is a prob.

To go straight in to the Practical will be OK.

When the Booking Form for the Course is completed, there should be a section ref the Applicants Medical condition.

How each Individual Training Centre will view the evidence of Your disclosings, I am not sure.
I have looked at the RYA sight(I find it difficult to navigate!) I think it may depend on the Centre in question ref their Insurance cover.

I think You should enquire with a couple of more Centres and pose the question.
No doubt a more experienced Forumite in this matter will pop along shortly.

If Paul is happy enough with His experience and knowledge so far, as said I don't think the Course will be too daunting.
It's a cracking Course IMHO!

 

[SnaxMuppet]

This is something I am confused about.

I know that the Yachmaster certificate is issued as a result of a direct practical assessment (or test) and taking the shorebased course, although recommended, is not in any way compulsory. If you convince the examiner on the day that you are up to standard then you get the YM.

On the other hand, I thought that Dayskipper was an "attendance" course. In other words, you get the certificate by attending the course and that attendance of shorebased course was a prequisite for the practical course?

Have I got this wrong?

 

[Sneds]

Think you need to be up to DS theory standard to be able to understand what is going on with the pratical couse, bit like taking your dring test without ever having seen a car

Cue Solitaire /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Kawasaki]

No. I don't think the attendance of the Shorebased Course is a pre requisite.
I think the School would or should "interrogate" the Applicant before hand to see if His or Her experiance / knowledge would be sufficient to cope with the Task in hand.
IE
Basic knowledge of Charts and stuff like that.

 

[Sneds]

Would like to do that interrogation, did the DS many years ago. Pre DSC etc, thinking of doing it again with SWMBO, seems quite pricey though?
Would like to do a combination of both, a bit (lot!?) of a brush up and most time spent on the boat.
Time off is precious and like to spend it afloat.

Hey, that rhymes!

 

[PaulGlatzel]

Anne

Hi, the RYA recommended wording to Training Centres regarding medical conditions does indeed ask that the person confirms that they do not suffer from epilepsy. However, this is not to suggest that someone suffering epilepsy cannot attend a course it is simply that the Centre needs to understand and be aware of the conditions that may affect training that an Instructor may need to deal with. Most schools would then need to understand what impact the condition has and how regular the attacks have happened. Given your explanation that the fits are very occasional and mild we would almost certainly have no problem accepting Paul onto a Course and I would have thought this would be true for many other schools too.

Addressing another subject raised, the requirements for entry to the Dayskipper Practical course are "2 days experience .." and "Basic navigation & helmsmanship". In short the entry level is very basic and certainly doesn't necessitate knowledge to the level of Dayskipper Theory. Of course in an ideal world attendees would already have lots of theory knowldge as this allows a greater focus on the practical aspects of the course but in practice this is rarely so.

Arny, you are correct that YM Offshore is a Examined "Certificate of Competence" and that there is no requirement for CS/YM Theory for attendance on this Exam. That said anyone attending the Exam needs to be very sure that their theory knowledge is up to scratch as the examiner will potentially throw questions at them on any aspect of the syllabus. Thus achieving the CS/YM Theory course arguably really ensures you at the right level for the exam. On an Exam if you are able to turn round to the Examiner and show that you recently succeeded at the CS/YM Theory this can only help you though. As i understand it the RYA are generally very reticient to specify you must achieve Qualification A before Qualification B and prefer to suggest that you must "have knowledge to the level of...".

In respect of Dayskipper Practical whilst it is not examined there is a standard to reach and if an indivual doesn't do so during the course then the Instructor will identify the areas to be worked on before the Certificate can be awarded.

Hope this helps

Regards

Paul

 

[breezer5012]

Thanks to you all for your advice. Just to clarify, it is me who has epilepsy, not Paul. We both want to do the course though, its just that I started to learn about mobos etc from scratch less than a year ago, where as Paul has come with significant previous knowledge. Driving wise, I have surrendered my driving licence for a year (the year is up on 9th December this year). It hasn't been taken off me - I voluntarily surrendered it knowing that if I were to be diagnosed it would be taken off me anyway and would then be more hassle to get back! Maybe I should delay the course until next year when I will have my drivers licence back again (hopefully, as long as I don't have another seizure). I just didn't want to build my hopes up for doing the course (we are looking to based a holiday around it) only to be told I wouldn't be accepted. Interestingly I did declare my seizures to our marine insurance company and they were absolutely fine about it.

It is relief to read some of your replies - I can completely understand that an instructor needs to know what he/she is handling. To be honest, if I'm in an unusual situation without Paul I tend to let people know the signs and what to do anyway. I'm just a bit sensitive to people hearing the word epilepsy and jumping to totally inappropriate conclusions on which a decision is then based. Thanks for not doing that /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Wiggo]

Good point that Paul made there, Anne. It's not about what is and isn't permitted in terms of medical conditions, it's about awareness. One thing I picked up on from the YM training was that you should always ask if anyone coming aboard has any medical conditions you should be aware of - allergies, asthma, panic attacks, heart problems, epilepsy etc. None of these prevent you from coming aboard and enjoying a day out, but as skipper, if you collapse in a heap it is really helpful if I know why it may have happened.

 

[breezer5012]

Makes me feel more secure as well - at least then I know I'll be looked after appropriately. I usually let people know what DOESN'T require a 999 call too - anything other than that means they pick up the phone, but telling people what happens and what to do seems to help both me and them. Usually!

 

[Kawasaki]

Sorry anne , I thought it was Paul you were alluding to.
Paul_Glatzel knows what He is talking about.
His post sums it up properly. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Sort Your Driving Licence out asap.
Have a nice Holiday. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Sneds]

Paul, thanks for the information.

Anne, good luck with your course.

Me, saving for one!

 

[Solitaire]

To bridge the navigational knowledge gap, from September the RYA has introduced a basic navigation course . This will go someway to providing a more in-depth knowledge than can be imparted in either the PB 2 course or the helmsman's course.

As far as the DS practical course goes, there is the option to run over 5 days rather than the standard 4 days if there is a question over aspects of the theoretical knowledge.

The best thing is to talk to schools and see what they will do to accommodate your needs. This is becoming increasingly important as a number insurance companies are now insisting on some form of RYA qualification as a prerequisite to new boat owners. Only last week a client said that most insurance companies he had spoken to were insisting upon Day Skipper practical as a minimum. He eventually found one that did not require any qualification but there is a trend starting to emerge.

It is not just in the powerboat section that this is happening. A guy rang and said that he was buying a PWC (jet ski) and that his insurance company insisted on him gaining the PWC proficiency certificate within 3 months of purchasing the ski.

 

[SnaxMuppet]

Paul,

Thanks for that explaination. I am pleased that for once the regulations make sense /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

I have always thought it a little silly that someone, such as PaulGray, who has practical experience and is clearly up to DS standard (and IMO above), should be forced to spend the money and time on attending the shorebased course. If he is sure that he has knowledge of all the course syllabus then that should be good enough.

Thanks again for explaining so clearly for us.

 

[whisper]

Hi Anne,
You have my sympathy as your case seems similar to mine of a couple of years ago. I was rushed in to Derriford following a "fit" and ended up staying there for 2 weeks whilst they decided what it was and what had caused it.

Anyway, they discovered a lesion on my brain and after I decided not to have a biopsy done - they were very disappointed not to have an interesting guinea pig - they sent me away. Within a couple of months the lesion had disappeared on its own so they eventually decided it most probably was encephalitis.
Like you, I voluntarily handed in my driving licence - what a PITA - but got very used to and enjoyed travelling down to Devon by train - it was actually cheaper than driving. In fact I spent a month in every three using the boat, though have to admit that at the time I didn't inform my boat insurers as I was mainly single handing and I thought that with "epilepsy" they wouldn't have been very happy. You're right that there is a bit of "oh my god" attached to the word in certain uninitiated circles.

Anyway, the year without driving went quicker than I expected and I hope it will with you as well. I take a low dose of a drug that allegedly will prevent any recurrence - daren't not take it in case the problem returns and I have to hand in my licence again.

As others have said, training establishments tend to want to be kept informed rather than be restrictive when asking for medical details.

Hope you have a great time on the course.

All the best,
John

 

[Renegade_Master]

As Solitaire says It would not necessarilly preclude someone from a course. On our form we have a section where one is asked to declare any medical conditions including epilepsy which "may" effect you during the course.


You do not need the theory course prior to the practical though some people prefer to do it first. You are taught a lot of the theory during the practical including chart navigation and effectively put it into practice, as it were. Below is an exract from the Day Skipper Practical Syllabus


3. Navigation
Is proficient in chart work and can carry out the following tasks:
Taking and plotting fixes
Working up DR and EP
Predicting tidal heights and tidal streams
Working out course to steer to allow for tidal stream
Identifying buoys and lights by colour shape, topmark and light characteristics
Keeping a navigational log
Using an echosounder
Use of GPS