Dash Cam for boats

[Ian h]

Sunday morning we were going over to Cowes, as usual we stay in the main channel as this is less populated with sailing boats and usually nothing untoward happens,
sea state was slight only a F3 being shown on Bramblemet.

Knowing that the wind was forecast picking up to F6 later we wanted to have blast while we could,

Travelling at approx 38 knots with 2 on board, we had come round Calshot spit and all going well. We then both noticed a sailing yacht of approx 50" crossing the channel East to West. as we were the faster boat we made a marked turn to port to pass behind the sailing boat, we were sure that we had been seen. But then with out warning the sailboat decided to tack 180 degrees thus coming back towards our expected track, (did not seem any logic to this) We were able to alter course to Starboard to once again pass behind his stern, the yacht skipper then gave us various hand gestures for what we felt was his fault.
It appeared to both of us that he had tacked 180 degrees just to p**** us off. he did not appear to be racing or anything , Just out for a pleasant day on the water like us. If we had camera footage it would have been posted to show what we have to put up with,

As said we use the main channel to stay out of the way as much as possible ,

What have others come across ?
Have to say that we acknowledge all boaters regards of means of propulsion. A friendly wave costs nothing and 99% of the time we get a wave back. Why is it that a few come across as though they are the only boaters out ?

 

[superheat6k]

Ian not wishing to be critical here, but I do have immediate concerns about your description of events here.

Making a sharp turn to port is not necessarily what the yacht skipper may have expected, indeed he may have had someone else helming shouting for instructions in a panic. A short notice collision avoidance manoeuvre by a keep clear fast vessel would be expected to be to starboard, and if he thought you were coming at him before your turn to port he may have simply felt he had to act and act (as he perceived it) quickly. If your turn was to port and he turned into your track then his tack would have been to starboard, and the fact he threw in a 180 degree turn does suggest he was very concerned.

You were also by admission travelling very fast, indeed arguably at a speed not safe for navigation in a channel, and had decided to pass under his stern, which is fine, but how close, and indeed how close did he interpret this, or indeed was he already making his emergency manoeuvre to avoid a very fast power boat he thought may not have seen him, or simply to be coming towards him very fast and too close. In this circumstance your sharp turn to port may have been completely unexpected, and hence explains his apparent ire.

Obviously I was not there, but I have been the helmsman on a yacht seemingly under attack by large and fast vessels, and with very little time to make an emergency manoeuvre decision, as indeed is required by the Colregs, if you perceive the actions of the give way vessel insufficient to avoid risk of collision.

You are right a dash cam would reveal a lot more about the situation. But I cannot imagine the skipper deliberately tacked his yacht in to the expected path of a power boat travelling very fast and coming too close from his perceived view.

 

[Ian h]

Ian not wishing to be critical here, but I do have immediate concerns about your description of events here.

Making a sharp turn to port is not necessarily what the yacht skipper may have expected, indeed he may have had someone else helming shouting for instructions in a panic. A short notice collision avoidance manoeuvre by a keep clear fast vessel would be expected to be to starboard, and if he thought you were coming at him before your turn to port he may have simply felt he had to act and act (as he perceived it) quickly. If your turn was to port and he turned into your track then his tack would have been to starboard, and the fact he threw in a 180 degree turn does suggest he was very concerned.

You were also by admission travelling very fast, indeed arguably at a speed not safe for navigation in a channel, and had decided to pass under his stern, which is fine, but how close, and indeed how close did he interpret this, or indeed was he already making his emergency manoeuvre to avoid a very fast power boat he thought may not have seen him, or simply to be coming towards him very fast and too close. In this circumstance your sharp turn to port may have been completely unexpected, and hence explains his apparent ire.

Obviously I was not there, but I have been the helmsman on a yacht seemingly under attack by large and fast vessels, and with very little time to make an emergency manoeuvre decision, as indeed is required by the Colregs, if you perceive the actions of the give way vessel insufficient to avoid risk of collision.

You are right a dash cam would reveal a lot more about the situation. But I cannot imagine the skipper deliberately tacked his yacht in to the expected path of a power boat travelling very fast and coming too close from his perceived view.

I did not say sharp turn I said marked turn. I was trying to relay that we made a manoeuvre that was what we thought obvious to the other Skipper to show that we had seen him and intend to pass astern of him. We were not close when we carried out this change in course. There was no perceived risk of collision. And as I said when he tacked 180" we were able again easily able to change course to Starboard to pass behind his stern, so you can see we may have been going quicker than a lot of boats but still able to carry out 2 manoeuvrs before actually passing astern
The Skipper of the sailing yacht made the turn after we had altered course and was not at the same time.
We did not go to Starboard as at the time he was crossing the channel and we did not want him thinking we were going to try and cut in front. I would not call 38 knots very fast. yes it is faster than a lot of boats but there are faster boats in the Solent,

 

[Rocksteadee]

For the yacht to have had time to make a 180deg turn after you had turned to port, you must have made the manoeuvre early enough.

If I have read this correct traveling south at cal shot spit, a turn to starboard would have taken you onto the shallows.

I have many a time made a give way manoeuvre only for a yacht to then tack and put us back onto a collision course so have to then make another give way manoeuvre, it would seem that some yachts haven’t quite grasped that a stand on vessel should do just that and maintain course and speed if possible (although I don’t know the circumstances if the yacht could)

38kts seems a bit fast for what can sometimes be quite a congested corner (I don’t know how busy it was)

 

[Ian h]

The logic we thought was that the yacht was going to continue across the channel. It was nearing high tide so plenty of water. As said before we thought passing astern was the more logical and friendly manoeuvre. The Solent was not as busy as normal as the forecast was for gales later on the day. We also keep an all round look out with a regular look behind just
In case there is anything faster out there. Like the Red Jet .

 

[NGM]

…... If we had camera footage it would have been posted to show what we have to put up with.....

I'm struggling to understand what this would achieve ? If their was a collision then it maybe useful but a misunderstanding between 2 boats that had zero consequences, what's the point ?

 

[Hot Property]

On a wider point Ian, having a dashcam is rather useful when travelling along the Hamble on a sunny day. I have had both sailing and powerboats exit marina berths with no regard as to what traffic there may be on the main channel, resulting in me having to take evasive action to avoid a collision.

Sometimes shouting and gesticulation is heard from the other boats but when I point to my dashcam it all goes rather quiet....

Probably as they know the footage showing their actions may be on you tube you the time they reach Warsash!!!

 

[sorabain]

I'd go with your instincts on this one. It sounds like you made your course changes with plenty of time to spare but he wanted to play "spoiler", possibly thinking he's the Solent speed police and wanted to slow you down and got upset when you managed to pass whilst maintaining speed rather than being forced to stop. Vast majority of boaters of all varieties are decent people, but always seems to be a few who rant and wave at everything going faster than them whilst making basic colreg errors themselves.

I used to stop for everyone waving for attention, thinking they must have some kind of emergency or have something important to relay; now with some regret try to assess whether they are just having a conniption fit, as being on the receiving end even when you cannot see what you've done wrong can ruin your day.

 

[Portofino]

Ian do you think it might be quite intimidating for slow traffic from a wake POV ?
I,am not familiar with the exact geographical place but could the yacht think ( incorrectly if tide has risen ) that there was a draught issue with his keel ,so he was basically trying to zig zag up a ( he thought ) channel hence the 180 as he thought its time to turn as he thought he was coming to the end of the deeper part ?
Maybe he expected you to approach a bit slower after suddenly appearing round a point to access him better before picking your passing side so to speak .
Ok it’s for you a 50/50 , port or Stb side .

I don’t travel that fast 38 knots but I regularly cruise at 30 knots which is quick relative for slower traffic as I,am soon “on them “
If I can’t with a great margin of safety and prediction work out there movement(s) I actually slow right down .Sometimes dropping off to 9 knots there speed .
One to avoid a kerfuffle
But second WAKE .Conscious of my wake rolling them .

Sorry can’t get theses in the right order - duh !


Dropped off the plane from 30 knots to 9 as passing anchored boats .


Think I,am clear now ?


Approach can see boats anchored so slow down .


Start to speed up as clear of anchored but unfortunately there’s a fisher type local ( same track ) going D speed and my WAKE gonna roll him bad as I am accelerating towards 30 knots
Hands up despite my earlier thought fullness for this guy he thinks I am a [ insert your own expletive ]



It’s this it intimidating I think ripping past them - they don’t like it .

I don’t think it’s a col regs argument at all it’s a SPEED hatred thing .
As said and illustrated it’s difficult to meter it out sensibility all the time , but I try to make an effort .
Not saying you don’t but ripping by him at 38 knots is not gonna endear you mate .

 

[jrudge]

38 kts in a channel.

I just can’t see anyway this is clever or wise

 

[Boathook]

A 50 foot sailing boat might have a draft of 3m so with at least 1m safety clearance that's 4m of water required. Some bits of the Solent do shoal quickly so a tack is required. My boat is only 30 foot and a boat approaching at high speed is worrying if I cant see any one on the helm. Also the wash as mentioned can mean chaos so sometimes I turn towards it. A dash cam would be helpful to show your point of view.

 

[TheOrs]

At 38 knots in his boat I imagine there would be very little wake. Probably less than if he slowed anyway. Thing is, the yachtsman wouldn't know that.

I think the yacht was probably about to tack anyway. These things take time, so the tack manoeuvre may have been started before you even appeared. To the yachtsman it could've appeared that you were turning across his (intended direction) bows. They do sometimes expect you to understand sailing and anticipate their moves.

Still, no harm done. Move on. I can't imagine you'd get much of a decent picture from a dashcam mounted to a fast moving powerboat anyway.

 

[Ian h]

I'd go with your instincts on this one. It sounds like you made your course changes with plenty of time to spare but he wanted to play "spoiler", possibly thinking he's the Solent speed police and wanted to slow you down and got upset when you managed to pass whilst maintaining speed rather than being forced to stop. Vast majority of boaters of all varieties are decent people, but always seems to be a few who rant and wave at everything going faster than them whilst making basic colreg errors themselves.
.

these were not last minute course Changes and agree with your thinking that he wanted to slow us down, But did not work. We just shrugged shoulders and carried on. At no times was there risk of collision

Ian do you think it might be quite intimidating for slow traffic from a wake POV ?
I,am not familiar with the exact geographical place but could the yacht think ( incorrectly if tide has risen ) that there was a draught issue with his keel ,so he was basically trying to zig zag up a ( he thought ) channel hence the 180 as he thought its time to turn as he thought he was coming to the end of the deeper part ?
Maybe he expected you to approach a bit slower after suddenly appearing round a point to access him better before picking your passing side so to speak .
Ok it’s for you a 50/50 , port or Stb side
I don’t think it’s a col regs argument at all it’s a SPEED hatred thing .
As said and illustrated it’s difficult to meter it out sensibility all the time , but I try to make an effort .
Not saying you don’t but ripping by him at 38 knots is not gonna endear you mate .

from what we saw he was not zig zagging up the channel as after we past he continued Easterly back where he had come
We did not suddenly appear from around a headland, It a large open space of water .
This is the marker we had come round https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1937887

38 kts in a channel.

I just can’t see anyway this is clever or wise

We were in the main shipping channel not a small restricted channel. As said we are not the fastest as the Red Cat uses the same channel and that travels at 40 knots, there is also all the cargo ships and cruise liners using the same channel.

A 50 foot sailing boat might have a draft of 3m so with at least 1m safety clearance that's 4m of water required. Some bits of the Solent do shoal quickly so a tack is required. My boat is only 30 foot and a boat approaching at high speed is worrying if I cant see any one on the helm. Also the wash as mentioned can mean chaos so sometimes I turn towards it. A dash cam would be helpful to show your point of view.

We are in an open sports boat standing up at helm above windscreen

At 38 knots in his boat I imagine there would be very little wake. Probably less than if he slowed anyway. Thing is, the yachtsman wouldn't know that.

I think the yacht was probably about to tack anyway. These things take time, so the tack manoeuvre may have been started before you even appeared. To the yachtsman it could've appeared that you were turning across his (intended direction) bows. They do sometimes expect you to understand sailing and anticipate their moves.

Still, no harm done. Move on. I can't imagine you'd get much of a decent picture from a dashcam mounted to a fast moving powerboat anyway.

At the speed we were travelling there is actually very little wake,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geMusInXgNw

As you have said no harm done it was just annoying and to be honest the first time in 10 years that we have had that kind of reaction from a sailing boat or any other kind of boat, As said previously we always wave politely and receive a wave back

 

[John100156]

We have boats that are far more manoeuvrable, it's not much of an effort to take a slow wide detour around sailing boats even in fairly narrow channels - just keep a good look out give them a wide berth and move on, like a good skipper - life is too short and there are loads of plonkers out there that will wind you up if you let them, some even with rag and sticks!

 

[superheat6k]

On a wider point Ian, having a dashcam is rather useful when travelling along the Hamble on a sunny day. I have had both sailing and powerboats exit marina berths with no regard as to what traffic there may be on the main channel, resulting in me having to take evasive action to avoid a collision.

Sometimes shouting and gesticulation is heard from the other boats but when I point to my dashcam it all goes rather quiet....

Probably as they know the footage showing their actions may be on you tube you the time they reach Warsash!!!

But if they are exiting towards your stbd then like it or not you shall find yourself the give way vessel, and thus the onus is on you first to stand clear, and as such you should be anticipating such vessels appearing with little warning, especially as they might be going quite fast (4 - 6 knots) to avoid a possibly hard sideways to them tidal stream, especially for instance Port Hamble when the tide is ebbing. There are not give way markings at the end of a marina trot !

I do accept a low to the water boat may be lost in the higher clutter, so you may be less visible than a boat with a mast or higher structure.

Nowhere do IRPCS state vessels entering a channel must give way to vessels already navigating just because they are already there. I am not sure rule 9 narrow channels would apply to many leisure boats navigating much of the Hamble, except perhaps under the A27 bridge and past The Cabin yard.

 

[Rocksteadee]

Nowhere do IRPCS state vessels entering a channel must give way to vessels already navigating just because they are already there. I am not sure rule 9 narrow channels would apply to many leisure boats navigating much of the Hamble, except perhaps under the A27 bridge and past The Cabin yard.

9b “A vessel less than 20m shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel of fairway”
A bit vague but if there are moored boats both side I can only navigate that channel.
I have had yachts come straight into the channel in front of me and quite noticeably have not even look up the channel.

I seem to vaguely remember local bylaws superseding col regs regarding entering a channel

It is just polite to look first before deciding to pull out

 

[John100156]

You never know whats going on in another boat, I recall I was 20nm out to sea then had to rush below to the engine room because of a continuous bilge alarm, only to find the bilges were filled with 500L of fluid, would you believe it I was relieved to find out it was only diesel due to a loose fuel filter not sufficient to stop the engine ;-) I could not keep a good lookout for a while, lesser of two evils. Just be a good skipper and be prepared for anything, then move on, you are permitted to utter under you breath, what a plonker!

 

[MrB]

You never know whats going on in another boat, I recall I was 20nm out to sea then had to rush below to the engine room because of a continuous bilge alarm, only to find the bilges were filled with 500L of fluid, would you believe it I was relieved to find out it was only diesel due to a loose fuel filter not sufficient to stop the engine ;-) I could not keep a good lookout for a while, lesser of two evils. Just be a good skipper and be prepared for anything, then move on, you are permitted to utter under you breath, what a plonker!

What did you do with the 500L of diesel in the bilge?

 

[John100156]

I know - terrible, but we were 20nm out: Aborted trip across to Mallorca, had to pump some diesel out overboard to below line of critical electrics see below, then ran back 20nm to a bolt hole that we had plotted; took a long time to clean-out all diesel, smell lingered for days, SWMBO was not amused, bilges looked clean and shinny when finished though.

The STB engine on my Sealine F43 had a by-pass valve and hose to sea cock on one engine, so sucked up diesel through the SW line through impeller and engine. Soon flushed/diluted of course once back under way, anyone with an F43 will know how deep this is :-(

​

 

[Rocksteadee]

You never know whats going on in another boat, I recall I was 20nm out to sea then had to rush below to the engine room because of a continuous bilge alarm, only to find the bilges were filled with 500L of fluid, would you believe it I was relieved to find out it was only diesel due to a loose fuel filter not sufficient to stop the engine ;-) I could not keep a good lookout for a while, lesser of two evils. Just be a good skipper and be prepared for anything, then move on, you are permitted to utter under you breath, what a plonker!

One reason I include in my skipper brief for any passengers or crew, how to steer, how to throttle back and put into neutral, how to maintain a lookout and stamp on the floor to get my attention.