Danish Yacht family taken by pirates

[Zanziba]

Solving the problem on land is obviously the answer but looking at how well the worlds governements have attained that in recent years in conflict areas makes it doubtful that a simple and quick solution can be found.

I don't think that ANY amount of killing pirates will stop the problem as they simply have nothing at home and so much to gain from ransoms. Everytime you sink a vessel or kill a pirate another will appear.

I would suggest some attempt at:

A) Land based assaults on the strong holds in Somalia to sink all their active and held vessels that could be used for piracy.

B) A constant stop and search policy of vessels along the Somalia coast and sinking of any found to contain weapons. Pirates to be placed in custody.

C) No payment of any ransoms, EVER. It is pointless being a pirate if no ransoms are ever paid.

This may seem cruel but if no-one, no company, no insurance, no goverment had EVER paid a single penny in ransom, there would, quite simply, be no piracy.

 

[maxi77]

Solving the problem on land is obviously the answer but looking at how well the worlds governements have attained that in recent years in conflict areas makes it doubtful that a simple and quick solution can be found.

I don't think that ANY amount of killing pirates will stop the problem as they simply have nothing at home and so much to gain from ransoms. Everytime you sink a vessel or kill a pirate another will appear.

I would suggest some attempt at:

A) Land based assaults on the strong holds in Somalia to sink all their active and held vessels that could be used for piracy.

B) A constant stop and search policy of vessels along the Somalia coast and sinking of any found to contain weapons. Pirates to be placed in custody.

C) No payment of any ransoms, EVER. It is pointless being a pirate if no ransoms are ever paid.

This may seem cruel but if no-one, no company, no insurance, no goverment had EVER paid a single penny in ransom, there would, quite simply, be no piracy.

A few little thoughts

For A. Ther yanks sort of tried to control Mogadishu and retired hurt with a very bloody nose. How do you think your enterprise will work better without any proper central government. After all you cannot just go in and do the job and leave you have to hold the land to prevent the bases being reactivated.

For B only worthwhile if they have no shore bases and ready supply of foot soldier recruits. Anyway no blockade is watertight.

For C how do you enforce this especially after the pirates execute the first hostages on Al Jazeera during prime time news.

 

[Tradewinds]

I must say that, as a fellow cruiser, I have deep sympathy for their predicament.

But looking at their track (you can go to their website & click on the various track points & read their log entry - in Danish) they couldn't surely expect anything but trouble. It is almost as if they were courting disaster.

 

[sternsheet]

I must say that, as a fellow cruiser, I have deep sympathy for their predicament.

But looking at their track (you can go to their website & click on the various track points & read their log entry - in Danish) they couldn't surely expect anything but trouble. It is almost as if they were courting disaster.

Umm, www.sailers.co.uk has provided a translation of their blog from Danish. I quote: "And now we will just enjoy the trip, because fortunately, despite the many pirate attacks and general great fear among sailors, there have never been any attacks on sail boats which have followed the recommended route".

 

[sailorman]

I must say that, as a fellow cruiser, I have deep sympathy for their predicament.

But looking at their track (you can go to their website & click on the various track points & read their log entry - in Danish) they couldn't surely expect anything but trouble. It is almost as if they were courting disaster.

Thats the problem with blogging & tinternet.
never tell what you dont want the Whole world to know

 

[Tradewinds]

Thats the problem with blogging & tinternet.
never tell what you dont want the Whole world to know

Didn't have it in my day

 

[Neil]

I hope the world does something about Somalia. The pirates need to be stopped at source, not out in the open seas.

Why can't the international community follow the money trail? The ransom must be paid somewhere; find out where and freeze it. They can freeze Gadhaffis assets easy enough......

 

[maxi77]

Why can't the international community follow the money trail? The ransom must be paid somewhere; find out where and freeze it. They can freeze Gadhaffis assets easy enough......

I suspect that many of them prefer cash to plastic. Equally there are still several places where banking secrecy is a big income generator and as long as the big economies have tax evaders these places will also be open for other forms of bad guy like pirates.

 

[VO5]

The trouble is -- in this case -- they are not widening their catchment area. If the reports are correct that they were 14N and 58E then this is exactly the area where vessels have been pirated for the last four years. Have a look at the ICC piracy maps for the last few years:
http://www.icc-ccs.org/home/piracy-reporting-centre/imb-live-piracy-map-2010

It brings a lump to my throat trying to imagine how that poor family and crew must be feeling now. How utterly and totally terrible.

We made the trip eastwards a year ago -- across from Oman to India. Even then we skirted the Omani coast until we were 20 degrees north and stayed in convoy until 60 degrees east before making a straight course towards Mumbai.

The trouble is that since last year the pirates have moved eastwards, still covering their favourite areas around the GoA, but now showing up closer than ever to the Indian coastline. Piracy is a big topic of conversation over here (India) in the media and in the yachting world.

The Seychelles have been out of bounds since 2009, but it is getting more and more likely that the Maldives will soon be completely off limits, leaving Jamie and me stranded in Cochin...

I'm with you, Jonic. I think anyone who desperately wants to head west should go round the cape or pay the exorbitant price of having the vessel shipped. We would not go back the same way we came now, even if we did hug the coast all the way along India, Pakistan and Oman. Too dangerous.

I hope it turns out well for that poor Danish family.

I hope the world does something about Somalia. The pirates need to be stopped at source, not out in the open seas.

If enough of them get sunk the word will spread that piracy has become dangerous for pirates. It will cause aspiring pirates to think twice about engaging in piracy, because up till now there is no serious deterrent in reality.

Unfortunately, the world has become too civilised.... miscivilised rather.

 

[VO5]

There was in antiquity a famous Chinese Genral whose name was Tzun Zu. He wrote a book called "The art of War", a classic.

So, from memory...

The Emperor, mildly bemused by the General's reputation idly set him a challenge.

The challenge was whether in the General's opinion anyone could be trained to a proper military standard.

The General replied in the affirmative.

The Emperor...was pushing the envelope with the General.....both of them knew it....

The Emperperor now ventured inappropriately to ask the General whether "anybody" might include the women in his harem, for example ?

The General replied in the affirmative.

The Emperor was flippant and did not take the General seriously, as he deserved.

He now challenged the General to go ahead and attempot to discipline the women in the harem...

The General offered the Emperor an escape clause by asking him if he really was sure.

The Emperor nodded emphatically.

The General explained he would fulfil his mission.

The Emperor then nodded emphatically again.

The General now was ready to carry out the order.

The women from the harem were brought out and formed into three columns of three abreast and formed in front of him in the palace courtyard....

The General gave instructions that when he gave the order the women were to turn first to face the right, then on the second order to turn and face the left and then on the third order to turn and face forward.

The General gave the first order. The women were confused and collapsed in a fit of giggles.

The General explained what he wanted done.

The woimen continued to giggle.

He ordered them to start again...and for them to turn to face to the right.

Some did and some didn't and some turned to the left instead and all of them collapsed in a fit of giggles.

The General adressed the women a third time. He explained what was required very clearly and explained everything again.

He now gave the order for the women to turn and face the left.

Again there was complete chaos...some turned to the right, some to left, some turned their backs and all of them collapsed into a fit of giggles.

The general ordered the 9 women of the three colums of the front rows to step forward.

Without much ado, they were beheaded there and then.

The Emperor howled and protested bitterly..

The General continued and ignored the howling of the Emperor.

He now ordered the women to turn and face the left, which they did. He ordered them to turn and face the right which they did. He ordered them to turn and face the front which they did. He repeated this sequence three times and the womens' drill was perfect.

He was now ready to face the aggrieved Emperor.

He showed that he had obeyed the order and had carried out the mission entrusted to him which was what the Emperor wanted.

From then on the harem women obeyed orders without any further nonsense.

Why am I telling you this ?

I am telling you because beheading the nine was enough to discipline the rest absolutely.

What is needed in these pirate infested waters is to behead offenders and for the other offenders to know about it. That will put an end to aspirant pirates' aspirations. The longer this sanguine requirement is delayed the worse the situation will become, and never mind the United Nations or anyone else.

And THAT is what is needed, nothing else.

 

[sailorman]

Does Will Hague know this

 

[VO5]

Does Will Hague know this

Well if he doesn't, he ought to.

What political repercussions, if any, would develop from collectively putting in place a draconian scheme to clean up this danger ?

Why don't they just get on with it and slice a few heads off ?

The aspirants would desist from aspiring to piracy, pronto.

 

[mcframe]

What political repercussions, if any, would develop from collectively putting in place a draconian scheme to clean up this danger ?

Why don't they just get on with it and slice a few heads off ?

<sigh>
In the old days, sending in a task force, encouraging the natives to grow & sell tobacco/tea/grapes/sugar cane/wool/breadfruit/etc & teaching them to speak English and how to play cricket & rugby seemed to work reasonably well - at least for the first hundred or so years - then they get independence and beat us at cricket & rugby....

 

[lyralicious]

I am telling you because beheading the nine was enough to discipline the rest absolutely.

What is needed in these pirate infested waters is to behead offenders and for the other offenders to know about it. That will put an end to aspirant pirates' aspirations. The longer this sanguine requirement is delayed the worse the situation will become, and never mind the United Nations or anyone else.

And THAT is what is needed, nothing else.

Oh dear...

We don't summarily execute people in a civilised society, otherwise we would be no better than the 'barbarians' we loathe.

In any case, a lot more than nine pirates have already been killed and it has not made any difference - in fact all the reports tell us that they are becoming more violent as a result of the action against them. (Do the research and you'll find other hostages have been killed, not just yotties.)

How many killings do you think it will take before the pirates stop? Do you have a magical figure?

The pirates are not a docile 'harem', they are not a homogeneous group - there is much in-fighting and rivalry between them. They are not going to be scared into stopping - they're pirates! Hostage-taking's a lucrative business, so as long as they make money - and they do - the head honchos will continue to send boatloads of bandits out onto the sea.

Many pirates have been killed in rescue operations or taken prisoner. Again, do your homework. Here's one example:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/21/south-korea-rescue-somali-pirates

The fight will not be won on the ocean. It can only be won on land.

Somalia needs help in setting up a strong and forceful government - perhaps with the backing of the UN or neighbouring states - it's about time the world's powers stopped just recognising this and actually did something about it.

 

[Neil]

I suspect that many of them prefer cash to plastic. Equally there are still several places where banking secrecy is a big income generator and as long as the big economies have tax evaders these places will also be open for other forms of bad guy like pirates.

My understanding was that a ransom of a full tanker, for example, was in the millions. Hard to pay in cash. Did I see something about ransom payments going through one of their guys in Spain? The main problem is that shipping lines seem to collude with the pirates in making the ransom payment, to bring about a "successful" conclusion to the business.

I still say that the best way is to follow the money. The pirates must have it somewhere, they surely are not sitting on top of a truckload of cash in a mud hut in Somalia.

Shooting up the guys on the boats, who are probably only hired hands, paid a pittance, isn't the way to go, in my view.

 

[VO5]

Oh dear...

We don't summarily execute people in a civilised society, otherwise we would be no better than the 'barbarians' we loathe.

In any case, a lot more than nine pirates have already been killed and it has not made any difference - in fact all the reports tell us that they are becoming more violent as a result of the action against them. (Do the research and you'll find other hostages have been killed, not just yotties.)

How many killings do you think it will take before the pirates stop? Do you have a magical figure?

The pirates are not a docile 'harem', they are not a homogeneous group - there is much in-fighting and rivalry between them. They are not going to be scared into stopping - they're pirates! Hostage-taking's a lucrative business, so as long as they make money - and they do - the head honchos will continue to send boatloads of bandits out onto the sea.

Many pirates have been killed in rescue operations or taken prisoner. Again, do your homework. Here's one example:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/21/south-korea-rescue-somali-pirates

The fight will not be won on the ocean. It can only be won on land.

Somalia needs help in setting up a strong and forceful government - perhaps with the backing of the UN or neighbouring states - it's about time the world's powers stopped just recognising this and actually did something about it.

Oh Dear indeed.

Have you ever spent time in Africa ?

If you have you will soon realise it is not like Europe.

You expect too much. Your ideas are undoubtedly well intended but naive.

You expect Somalia can be sort of upgraded to European standards and European values. You are wrong.

What is needed is a tough stance and not the strategy you suggest to get rid of the nuisance.

 

[VO5]

My understanding was that a ransom of a full tanker, for example, was in the millions. Hard to pay in cash. Did I see something about ransom payments going through one of their guys in Spain? The main problem is that shipping lines seem to collude with the pirates in making the ransom payment, to bring about a "successful" conclusion to the business.

I still say that the best way is to follow the money. The pirates must have it somewhere, they surely are not sitting on top of a truckload of cash in a mud hut in Somalia.

Shooting up the guys on the boats, who are probably only hired hands, paid a pittance, isn't the way to go, in my view.

Well if some really serious practical measures are not taken quickly, it will spread, like a cancer, to the Bay of Bengal and perhaps even as far as the Phillipines.

Then on the West Coast of africa it will be aped and then we will all up a gum tree with it, is what will happen next.

 

[Neil]

I agree, there must be a serious co-ordinated effort to stamp this business out, but each element of the process must be tackled simultaneously; from the guys on the boats, to the bases in Somalia, to the warlords bank accounts. In addition, the shipping lines must be encouraged to take an agreed stance on ransom payments - whether it is a ban on making any payment or full co-operation in allowing Interpol to track the money- both options should be on the table.

The escalation of the violence, the use of large, stolen boats as mother ships, the enlargement of the pirates cachement area, it will all end in tears, unless something is done.

 

[maxi77]

I agree, there must be a serious co-ordinated effort to stamp this business out, but each element of the process must be tackled simultaneously; from the guys on the boats, to the bases in Somalia, to the warlords bank accounts. In addition, the shipping lines must be encouraged to take an agreed stance on ransom payments - whether it is a ban on making any payment or full co-operation in allowing Interpol to track the money- both options should be on the table.

The escalation of the violence, the use of large, stolen boats as mother ships, the enlargement of the pirates cachement area, it will all end in tears, unless something is done.

To be honest I do not see similar pirate bases in either the Bay of Bengal or the Philipines simply because in these areas there are effective governments who can deny bases to this current form of piracy.

There were and still probably are pirates operating in the Philipines and Singapore Straits, but they are simply intereted in the cash and valuables on ships, they board, steal, and then are on their way as fast as possible.

 

[alant]

There was in antiquity a famous Chinese Genral whose name was Tzun Zu. He wrote a book called "The art of War", a classic.

So, from memory...

The Emperor, mildly bemused by the General's reputation idly set him a challenge.

The challenge was whether in the General's opinion anyone could be trained to a proper military standard.

The General replied in the affirmative.

The Emperor...was pushing the envelope with the General.....both of them knew it....

The Emperperor now ventured inappropriately to ask the General whether "anybody" might include the women in his harem, for example ?

The General replied in the affirmative.

The Emperor was flippant and did not take the General seriously, as he deserved.

He now challenged the General to go ahead and attempot to discipline the women in the harem...

The General offered the Emperor an escape clause by asking him if he really was sure.

The Emperor nodded emphatically.

The General explained he would fulfil his mission.

The Emperor then nodded emphatically again.

The General now was ready to carry out the order.

The women from the harem were brought out and formed into three columns of three abreast and formed in front of him in the palace courtyard....

The General gave instructions that when he gave the order the women were to turn first to face the right, then on the second order to turn and face the left and then on the third order to turn and face forward.

The General gave the first order. The women were confused and collapsed in a fit of giggles.

The General explained what he wanted done.

The woimen continued to giggle.

He ordered them to start again...and for them to turn to face to the right.

Some did and some didn't and some turned to the left instead and all of them collapsed in a fit of giggles.

The General adressed the women a third time. He explained what was required very clearly and explained everything again.

He now gave the order for the women to turn and face the left.

Again there was complete chaos...some turned to the right, some to left, some turned their backs and all of them collapsed into a fit of giggles.

The general ordered the 9 women of the three colums of the front rows to step forward.

Without much ado, they were beheaded there and then.

The Emperor howled and protested bitterly..

The General continued and ignored the howling of the Emperor.

He now ordered the women to turn and face the left, which they did. He ordered them to turn and face the right which they did. He ordered them to turn and face the front which they did. He repeated this sequence three times and the womens' drill was perfect.

He was now ready to face the aggrieved Emperor.

He showed that he had obeyed the order and had carried out the mission entrusted to him which was what the Emperor wanted.

From then on the harem women obeyed orders without any further nonsense.

Why am I telling you this ?

I am telling you because beheading the nine was enough to discipline the rest absolutely.

What is needed in these pirate infested waters is to behead offenders and for the other offenders to know about it. That will put an end to aspirant pirates' aspirations. The longer this sanguine requirement is delayed the worse the situation will become, and never mind the United Nations or anyone else.

And THAT is what is needed, nothing else.

"pour encourager les autres"