Dangerous advice?

[Slow_boat]

I should be dead or at least have had pretty bad food poisening by now. I've been leaving spag. bol. sauce or curry out in the kitchen then having it cold in a sarnie for breakfast for years.

Rare steak and onions wrapped in tin foil and kept hot in a thermos. Lovely.

 

[jhr]

Sticking soup into a thermos before a long passage makes perfect sense and I sometimes sail with people who do this.

With me, the trouble starts when the thermos is opened and I try to pour some of it out. A couple of Forumites can attest to this.....

 

[Wunja]

I was always told never to put hot food in the fridge. Don't know why and don't know if it's correct advice but as a result I never do. Cover it until cool and then put it in. No harm has befallen me yet.

It warms up the contents of the fridge.

 

[mikemonty]

In a recent issue of YM there was a photo of a couple loading hot food into a Thermos before setting off on a passage. This seemed a good idea to me. I mentioned this to SWMBO, who is a bit of a scientist, and she was mightily unimpressed!!

According to her, this is highly dangerous, because any bacteria not killed in the initial cooking have ample opportunity to proliferate with gastric consequences.
She states she will only reheat (and then only once) food if it is sharply cooled after the initial cooking and then refrigerated before reheating.

Is she correct?

For me,
This and other similar questions have to survive the "Newspaper Headline Test"

Which is -have you ever seen the newspaper headline "Another death/injury/loss (delete as applicable) due to [insert worry of choice here].

So let's try it...
Have you ever seen "Another spate of food poisonings due to warm food in thermos horror"?

(I added the "horror" bit myself for extra tabloid impact - I should be a journo...)
No? - well don't worry about it then!

 

[Davy_S]

Wot about adding a spoonful of Dettol? it says it kills 99.9% of all germy things.

 

[LadyInBed]

SWMBO, who is a bit of a scientist

Anyone with a bit of an OLLIGY should be listened to.

Then ignored!

 

[SolentBoat]

Are bacteria killed in a microwave?

I would imagine that bacteria wouldn't even notice microwaves on account of them being much, much smaller than the wavelength at which microwaves operate.

OTOH, as it's unlikely you're going to lick an empty microwave, bacteria in food will be killed by the microwaving process as the heat of the food will kill 'em. Providing you do it properly.

 

[lw395]

I would imagine that bacteria wouldn't even notice microwaves on account of them being much, much smaller than the wavelength at which microwaves operate.

OTOH, as it's unlikely you're going to lick an empty microwave, bacteria in food will be killed by the microwaving process as the heat of the food will kill 'em. Providing you do it properly.

Microwaves will heat water molecules which are a bit smaller than bacteria.
Microwaves are quite good for killing bacteria, but the waves don't reach the middle of big lumps of food, as you will have noticed when you defrost stuff, the outside can cook while the middle is frozen.

 

[lw395]

For me,
This and other similar questions have to survive the "Newspaper Headline Test"

Which is -have you ever seen the newspaper headline "Another death/injury/loss (delete as applicable) due to [insert worry of choice here].

So let's try it...
Have you ever seen "Another spate of food poisonings due to warm food in thermos horror"?

(I added the "horror" bit myself for extra tabloid impact - I should be a journo...)
No? - well don't worry about it then!

Most summers there is a story 'Wedding Party/OAP's Home/what-have-you hit by Salmonella/Screaming Trots/Mild Tummy upset.
It only makes the papers when the OAP's die from it.
But even a mild case can ruin your holiday.

I think we need to be a little bit careful on board, as hygiene may not be quite what we are used to. We don't normally live in cramped conditions with relative strangers, a shortage of hot water, a dodgy fridge, poor ventillation and blokes doing the 'cleaning'.

 

[Whiskey Bravo]

Yes, that's true. One of the worst cases of food poisoning I've ever seen was from a vegetarian rice dish eaten at a beautiful shoreside taverna in Levkas - made my 2 crew violently sick (at both ends, as it were...) for 2 days - luckily, I ate something else!

Just goes to show what I've always said, vegetarianism is dangerous, stick to bacon sarnies and everyone'll be ok.

 

[mikemonty]

Most summers there is a story 'Wedding Party/OAP's Home/what-have-you hit by Salmonella/Screaming Trots/Mild Tummy upset.
It only makes the papers when the OAP's die from it.
But even a mild case can ruin your holiday.

I think we need to be a little bit careful on board, as hygiene may not be quite what we are used to. We don't normally live in cramped conditions with relative strangers, a shortage of hot water, a dodgy fridge, poor ventillation and blokes doing the 'cleaning'.

But you didn't apply the test properly!

I don't see a thermos flask anywhere in your scenarios - and I didn't see OAPs anywhere in the OPS.
Maybe its only if we combine thermos flasks with OAPs we get disaster?

"OAPS in warm thermos food disaster!"
Nope- still doesn't pass my Newspaper Headline Test.

 

[mikemonty]

How about...

"Terrible hand-wringing epidemic - hundreds receive horrific friction burns"
An epidemic of handwringing with associated permanently furrowed brows broke out amongst the on-line sailing community today when an un-named source reported a possible correlation between food from a thermos and gippy tummies...

 

[ChattingLil]

I was always told never to put hot food in the fridge. Don't know why and don't know if it's correct advice but as a result I never do. .

It is correct advice and it's because the hot food will raise the temperature of the fridge and the cold food stored there.

 

[TiggerToo]

it all depends on the type of food. Some food can be left hangining around in the most unsalubrious of places: unpasteurised cheese, youghurt, dry meat

Some food, I would not trust eating after a few hours of "hanging around" e.g. uncooked eggs, semicooked chicken

in general, if something has cooled in a thermos flask (or jar, or tupperware) and then closed tightly, it will give off some gas-buildup when opened if contaminating bacteria have been at work (eg C botulinum).

I am afraid there is no failsafe, absolute rule which is workable or even desirable. After all,a degree of microbial contamination may even be useful for our immune systems. Some even believe that our epidemic of allergies is due to too much hygene....

Not sure if this applies to boating. But I would certainly apply a bit of common sense to our own private lives (as in "get a life and enjoy your food").

Commercial, public health scenarios are another matter, of course.

 

[Lakesailor]

This scientist wife. Has she been Peer-Reviewed?
I seem to remember for the G**bal W**m*ng threads that anyone with an scientific opinion on here should be Peer-Reviewed.

 

[sailorman]

Are bacteria killed in a microwave?

Cats have been

 

[Phideaux]

The old fashioned process of boiling, cooling, re-heating and finally bottling/canning was known as tyndillizaton and killed off the most bacteria and their heat-resistant spores. So, cook, cool , leave for a day, re-heat to boiling, cool and then store or heat again to boiling before putting into a sterilised thermos. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyndallization

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

This scientist wife. Has she been Peer-Reviewed?
I seem to remember for the G**bal W**m*ng threads that anyone with an scientific opinion on here should be Peer-Reviewed.

Twice-once by me and the other by the forumites above who have been kind enough to present their scientific knowledge-the other "bit"!
You've given me full justification for putting the pressure cooker back on board, even if I have inevitably to agree with SWMBO over the Thermos or face the consequences which would probably be worse than a gastric event!

 

[Phideaux]

You've given me full justification for putting the pressure cooker back on board...

I've just bought one for this very purpose; cooking the day before leaving, keeping sealed against contamination, allowing re-heating at higher temperature and pressure than a standard saucepan, with the advantage that the lid is clamped down tight and can't spill the beans if conditions get a bit rough. Not a guarantee I agree but better than the semi-thawed stews I've occasioned to date (large quantity of chilli and garlic helps too I suspect).

 

[alan_d]

For me,
This and other similar questions have to survive the "Newspaper Headline Test"

Which is -have you ever seen the newspaper headline "Another death/injury/loss (delete as applicable) due to [insert worry of choice here].

So let's try it...
Have you ever seen "Another spate of food poisonings due to warm food in thermos horror"?

(I added the "horror" bit myself for extra tabloid impact - I should be a journo...)
No? - well don't worry about it then!

I would have thought that taking significant decisions on the basis of tabloid newspaper headlines (real or hypothetical) was much riskier than eating food from a Thermos.