Damn 4 x 4s

Re: Damn 4 x 4s .... Baltic Winters ....

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I sometimes wonder what they are talking about over here. I learnt to drive in the '60s in the North West. Then snow was common, front wheel drive cars were not (not that probably has any real bearing on it). You learnt very quickly to be very careful of your right foot, on both accelerator and brake. Too much of either and you would be in trouble.

The best car that I ever drove n snow was a very old Ford Popular (with side valve engine) (I suspect that Brendan will remember them). Narrow Tyres and a three speed box. It would chug up most hills even in snow. In the winter of 1968/69 I remember my Dad having to commute between St Albans and Manchester. He was born and brought up in the Lake District, so he knew all about snow. He used to arrive home on a Friday having driven, before motorways fully linked the North an South cursing drivers who just 'gave up' and left their cars in the middle of the road.

I also saw that even in Cornwall in the 1990s. A bit of snow round Truro, and drivers left their cars in the middle of the road because 'they' were incapable of driving in a bit of snow.

A local farmer, in Cornwall, one day after a couple of cms (over a bit of ice) of snow had fallen said to me that there was no way his tractor could get up the hill opposite. I took my son to work over the same road (in a Ford Sierra), when I got back the farmer just shook his head and just kept saying "No way my tractor could get up there"

Shut down for a bit of snow. Wimps!

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Over here .... driving is different in winter to summer ... (winter drops to -20C at times ... summer rises to mid +20's) .... speeds drop for winter driving about 10kph from 140 to 130kph ....
We have initial incidents of the odd car in the ditch at start of winter .... then everyone settles down to steady till spring.

But we do have laws that kick in ~ Nov 1st and April 1st ... Nov. we have to have winter spec tyres fitted with not less than 4mm tread depth. April comes and we have to change to summer spec tyres. Many people now use M+S tyres, but these are generally a compromise and are not as good as true full spec Winter jobs.
The rubber compound and construction is different to cater for the extreme temps and also the tread pattern is designed to shed snow and not clog up as much.
My AWD is sitting on studded tyres ... "nails" that are designed to assist with starting off on ice / hard packed snow. When you run on tarmac / hard surface - they are pushed back into the tyre as they only protrude a tiny fraction ... The tread pattern is severe and tyre drum is a matter you have to live with ... but when you are on ice or snow - there is no substitute.
 
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Wander what you are talking about ? Here mums at 70's are driving with ´Volkswagen from 60's with normal tires in snow and ice and that's just normal. For what do you need the 4WDS ? Beats me !:p

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My first car was a 1970 Volvo 144, exactly the same age as myself. I once drove it all the way from Oslo to Stockholm in a snowstorm. First one of the season, so had not changed the tyres yet. Went nicely along at 60 km/h all the way. Those were the days...
 
"I was amused that with all the school closures due to the snow, all the 4x4 mums who thought at last they could justify the use of their gas guzzler for the school run, found they couldn't after all! "

Having a 1 hr drive through small country lanes to work and then passing through a town B-upon Avon- where all the 'chelsea tractor' ladies seem intent on taking their precious dahlings the 1/2 mile to school by 4x4. Let me state that they can't drive them in good weather let alone snow. In particular reversing seems to send them into a dither....Its ok for them they have the time to make 9 point turns before their coffee mornings but I have to get to work.

Ban the damn things.............and bring on the snow as there was at least 60% less traffic as is the case during the school holidays.

yes this is a woman driving spitting here.......
 
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Ban the damn things.............and bring on the snow as there was at least 60% less traffic as is the case during the school holidays.

yes this is a woman driving spitting here.......

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Why do you believe it is the fault of the car and not the driver? Would you suggest a ban on white vans, Vauxhall Astras, or indeed any make bar of course the one you chose?

We have a 2x4 that if it so pleases becomes a 4x4 on slippery surfaces, are you suggesting that it should be banned when the roads are slippy simply because now it is a 4x4? Would you ban an Audi Quattro (permanent) 4wd saloon? The car is irrelevant.

The real problem surely is that people insist on driving kids to school, not the car they use to do it in. Solution? Ban people, ban kids or ban schools, that will do the trick.
 
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Did you still drive leftside ? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

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Being gentlemen, the UK drives on the right side (i.e. the left). It was those countries that were defeated by the Napoleonic French that were forced to drive on the wrong side (i.e. the right). Napoleon, being an artilleryman and not a gentleman, wanted the roads to be arranged to suit his horse-drawn artillery.
 
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It was those countries that were defeated by the Napoleonic French that were forced to drive on the wrong side (i.e. the right). Napoleon, being an artilleryman and not a gentleman, wanted the roads to be arranged to suit his horse-drawn artillery.

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Didn't know Sweden was conquered by Napoleon in 1967. He must have been a very old man by then.
 
Re: Damn 4 x 4s - malch

Belatedly - sorry malch, it probably was the Quick Reply bit and no, I wasn't replying to you. Nobody needs to rattle my cage 'cos my mummy always leaves the door open. She does that 'cos I don't chew the furniture, p*ss on the floor or attack the postman.

On a more serious note, I love my 4 x 4. It has 7 seats, can tow (although some *** stole our caravan so we've nothing to tow at present), goes pretty much anywhere, is incredibly comfortable, and most importantly, keeps us all safe and secure. It's not too bad on fuel either for a 2.8 tdi.

A Vaushall Astra anihilated itself running into the side of our earlier one, (same model), we were unhurt, the Astra was a wreck, and our rear side door got dented. The Astra driver was lucky to survive. Having said that and to forestall any aspersions, it was his fault, we were turning right, he tried to pass us at high speed by cutting across us as we were turning, having already gone the wrong side of the keep left island behind us and just plain overestimated his chances.
 
Re: Damn 4 x 4s - malch

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some *** stole our caravan so we've nothing to tow at present

[/ QUOTE ] Glad to see the forum vigilantes are still about.
 
I am sure very very few perps in UK have any idea how to use/drive a 4x4 in bad road conditions, most are only used on tarmac in at the very worst, snow or ice, any decent 4x4 could cope with that if you have the right skills & the correct tyre pressures.
Winter/Summer tyres are a great way for the tyre companies to make some extra dosh, if you have a decent tread & the correct tyre pressure you can drive almost anywhere, those forumites who lived or worked in the middle east would back up my claim!

poter /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
Maybe not conquered exactly but avoided it by making Napoleon's brother king.

Suppose then got pressured into it over a period of years.

Wonder how a land border worked with change of driving side. Must have potential for some amusement.
 
Re: Damn 4 x 4s ..... Middle East ?????

"if you have a decent tread & the correct tyre pressure you can drive almost anywhere, those forumites who lived or worked in the middle east would back up my claim!"

Sorry but lived and worked for 5 years in saudi and I would not be so bold on it as you suggest ..... plus the driving and tyres etc. are a completely different ball-game on sand than snow / ice. Why do you think Land Cruisers etc. have fat wide tyres ? And Land Rovers etc. have narrow ? It is not just a design quirk ... it's for a reason.

Wide fat to spread load over sand and loose surface, cause if tyre digs into sand in desert - it keeps burying .... witness the number of prats who do just that off-road in ME.
Narrow to cut through the crud to good material under ....

It is not unusual here in winter-land ... I live and work in Baltic and North West Russia now ... to fit narrower winter tyres compared to normal summer .... and take it from me ... plus a few other millions of Winter drivers .... Winter tyres are far far better than any summer tyre regardless of pressure etc.
Construction of the tyre is not the only matter ... it's also the compound that is used ..... winter tyres are compounded for extreme low temps. The walls and tread pattern still works ... whereas summer tyres will harden up in such temps.

Come over here and I'll take you for a spin over the frozen lakes ??? Then we'll see what tyres can do.

As to UK driving in Winter ... no comment !!
 
Re: Damn 4 x 4s ..... Middle East ?????

Absolutely. Real snow tyres don't have big chunky tread. The grip comes as Nigel says from the compound

tire_175x270.jpg
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His All Terrain tyres didn't work too well!

snow_wheeling_001-786_2.preview.jpg
 
Re: Damn 4 x 4s ..... Middle East ?????

Oh bloody hell! now I've gone and found loads on the subject. A few hours reading here.

However this one is tasty
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Another view of a stuck Cam being snatched back by the ever helpful gc. The funny thing was the way he slid into the drain. He was stopped in the centre of the track and all it took was an easing out of the clutch to break traction and just slide off. Cam's choice of tyres however was anything but sensible ;-)

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cam_stuck_2.jpg


From a snow expedition blog.... http://www.lcool.org/trips/snow_2003/snow_2003_pics.html

(some great pics)
 
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Didn't know Sweden was conquered by Napoleon in 1967. He must have been a very old man by then.

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I think that's the point. Sweden wasn't conquered by Napoleon, so continued to drive on the left until 1967, when she changed for good practical reasons.
 
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Didn't know Sweden was conquered by Napoleon in 1967. He must have been a very old man by then.

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I think that's the point. Sweden wasn't conquered by Napoleon, so continued to drive on the left until 1967, when she changed for good practical reasons.

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Still think the old Irish Joke is funny ...

Buses and Trucks will change to driving on right side of road on Monday next. Cars and Motorcycles will change the following Monday.
 
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