Damaged cleat mounting, how to repair?

[Murv]

First time boat owners, so started sorting out those niggling little problems on the boat today.
one of them is that one of the cleats was half hanging off. Removed it today and found this

Had no idea what to do, several minutes running in circles, arms flapping and panicking had absolutely no effect.
So, drove to the chandlery to look for repair kits before the realisation sunk in that I have absolutely no idea what I need to do.
I suspect, from the pictures, that this has been botch repaired before, any thoughts? what can I do now?

 

[VicS]

First time boat owners, so started sorting out those niggling little problems on the boat today.
one of them is that one of the cleats was half hanging off. Removed it today and found this

Had no idea what to do, several minutes running in circles, arms flapping and panicking had absolutely no effect.
So, drove to the chandlery to look for repair kits before the realisation sunk in that I have absolutely no idea what I need to do.
I suspect, from the pictures, that this has been botch repaired before, any thoughts? what can I do now?

If you have access behind relatively simple

Cut out all the damaged area

Fix something ( That resin wont stick to) over the outside of the hole and lay up glass and resin (Starting with gel coat) from behind, over-lapping the sound area well. Incorporate a large ply backing pad


Plenty of info on line if you Google for repairing fibreglass boats

Also an old book on line by Tyler boats if I can find the link .......Here http://www.topcatsail.co.uk/GRP-REPAIR-MANUAL.pdf

 

[Murv]

Thanks for that, much appreciated.
However, I don't think there is any access behind it, unless I can get up from inside the engine compartment maybe. Will have to check.

 

[john_morris_uk]

The best job, as has already been said is if you can get access from behind. Is the green some sort of foam filler? There seems to be multiple layers there. Can you poke around and try to decide how it was laid up originally? Is the deck some sort of sandwich construction?

Its possibly to repair with no access to the other side, but I don't want to start going into explanations of how you might need to get a stainless plate to fit and repair over the top to allow you to screw the cleat back down onto the deck using pre drilled and tapped holes in the plate etc if you can get at the whole thing from both sides...

 

[Boathook]

Do a proper repair ....
West systems do a book on GRP repairs, etc that is worth reading and there have been quite a few other threads on GRP over the years and recently. Problem is that i'm no go with the search engine on here. Looking at the picture you will need to get access to the underside of the deck and cut back the old rotten 'wood' and possibly some othe deck where it is cracked through the GRP. Depending on access I would repair from both both sides reinforcing with ply soaked in epoxy resin and then covered with GRP, etc. The same would be done with the deck, sanded smooth and then repainted and the cleat refitted with through bolts. Big problem this time of year is the weather and if it is going to get colder after Christmas you will struggle with GRP, etc outside.

 

[Murv]

Many thanks all, sorry I should've explained the location better, it's not on the deck but on the side of the boat at the stern.
The picture of the cleat is it laying on the swim platform.

 

[VicS]

Do a proper repair ....
West systems do a book on GRP repairs, etc that is worth reading and there have been quite a few other threads on GRP over the years and recently. Problem is that i'm no go with the search engine on here. Looking at the picture you will need to get access to the underside of the deck and cut back the old rotten 'wood' and possibly some othe deck where it is cracked through the GRP. Depending on access I would repair from both both sides reinforcing with ply soaked in epoxy resin and then covered with GRP, etc. The same would be done with the deck, sanded smooth and then repainted and the cleat refitted with through bolts. Big problem this time of year is the weather and if it is going to get colder after Christmas you will struggle with GRP, etc outside.

West Systems user guides all on line ...... SEE HERE


I'd not use epoxy if it can be accessed from behind. I can see no need ... I might if doing it from the front as epoxy adheres better to old fibreglass ... or anything else for that matter...... .

Personally happy with polyester but not yet used epoxy ... my next job will be epoxy!

Temperature and issue certainly at this time of year but OK if it can be shifted into a garage with a bit of heating.



Repairing hole and relocating cleat to a sound area with a big backing pad inside an option ??

 

[knuterikt]

Do a proper repair ....
West systems do a book on GRP repairs, etc that is worth reading and there have been quite a few other threads on GRP over the years and recently. Problem is that i'm no go with the search engine on here. Looking at the picture you will need to get access to the underside of the deck and cut back the old rotten 'wood' and possibly some othe deck where it is cracked through the GRP. Depending on access I would repair from both both sides reinforcing with ply soaked in epoxy resin and then covered with GRP, etc. The same would be done with the deck, sanded smooth and then repainted and the cleat refitted with through bolts. Big problem this time of year is the weather and if it is going to get colder after Christmas you will struggle with GRP, etc outside.

You can find lots of info here http://www.westsystem.com/ss/use-guides/

You find the book "002-550 Fiberglass Boat Repair & Maintenance" on this page.

 

[Bodach na mara]

That has been a right botch-up. The cleat should have been through-bolted and the long screws look like mild steel. Not a good material to use. I suggest as a first stage, filling the hole. Grind out he edger to a tapered and smooth finish, removing all unsound material. Somehow secure a backing pad to allow you to lay up several layers of glass mat and resin to near surface level. Fill to just under surface level with maring glass fibre filler. Overfill with gelcoat repair stuff. Allow to set for at least 2 days then start sanding back to the level, using progressively fined paper. Finish when within 0.2mm of final level with 1200 grade wet-and-dry, used wet then pofish with a cutting compound.

To refit the cleat, you need access to the back to apply nuts to the bolts. It you can't get access in this position, secure the cleat where you can get access using stainless bolts through a thick backing plate to spread the loads. The plate should go AT LEAST 1 inch beyond the extent of the cleat base.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Many thanks all, sorry I should've explained the location better, it's not on the deck but on the side of the boat at the stern.
The picture of the cleat is it laying on the swim platform.

OK on the explanation - but can you gain access to the underside of the damaged area? If you can what is the access like? It will be rather easier to repair if the access is good, but any access will be better then none.

PS Epoxy sticks better to old GRP than polyester resin, and this is one occasion where I suggest you really need better stiction whichever side you have access to.

The temperature is crucial, but its often possible to build a sort of tent of some sort of material/boxing in and heat it with a hot air gun and/or heater to raise the temperature enough to effect the repair.

 

[30boat]

You will have to grind the area in a shallow taper and relaminate.If you have access from below do the same under the deck and relaminate from both sides meeting the fresh layers at midthickness.If not just grind an area larger that the outline of the base plate as a shallow V right down to the bottom laminate.Redo the laminate with epoxy and roving,fill and fair.When refitting the cleat use a stainless steel backplate of at least 3mm thickness that overlaps the rebuilt area by a fair bit.Bed the backplate in thickened epoxy resin to ensure perfect contact with the deck.

 

[john_morris_uk]

When refitting the cleat use a stainless steel backplate of at least 3mm thickness that overlaps the rebuilt area by a fair bit.

I agree that a stainless plate would be ideal, but you might get away with a decent plywood pad and penny washers.

 

[30boat]

I agree that a stainless plate would be ideal, but you might get away with a decent plywood pad and penny washers.

Plywood works well but it's even better if a layer or two or fiberglass is laminated on both sides.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Plywood works well but it's even better if a layer or two or fiberglass is laminated on both sides.

Agreed - I was trying not to go into too much detail. The layer of glass either side of plywood is how a lot of our own boats fittings are mounted. However I used a stainless backing plate when I mounted new clutches on the coachroof.

 

[William_H]

Fibreglass repair

I am guessing that the cleat actually mounts on the side of the deck. (from the sight of the lug for canopy attachment)
If you can't get access inside and I can imagine that will be difficult You need to slip a piece of stainless steel plate or plywood inside through the hole.This will be as wide as the hole (i suggest you widen the hole) and a lot longer than the whole repair. Make 2 small holes in the backing plate and pass some wire through the holes in such a way that you can pull the wire out later. If you use plywood give it a good coat of thickened resin to glue it to the inside of the hull/deck.
As said epoxy is best but you will need some heating to get it to set. Polyester resin does not stick so well but it is possible to add more hardener for cold weather.
You will need to grind out all the damaged fibreglass back to solid material.
Slip the backing plate through the hole and juggle it until it is central under the hole.
The inside plate is pulled into position and attached to a large U shaped piece of metal which will straddle the hole and allow you to work on the hole. Use the wire up to the U shaped bracket and twist the wire to get it tight.
Use a thickened resin to get a seal around the sides of the backing plate because it will be slightly narrower than the hole. Once the backing plate is secured and the resin hard you can remove the wire and holding bracket.
You can now proceed to fill the hole with layers of chopped strand mat or fibreglass cloth until the hole is filled. You can put pigment into the later resin to give the right colour or count on painting the repair later.
The whole repair will take several lots of resin allowing it ton go nearly hard before adding more layers. especially working on the side of the hull too much resin will run out. So lots of glass. Perhaps a pad clamped over the resin and glass to hold in place. Line the pad with cling wrap to stop it sticking to resin.
As previously described sand the whole repair smooth.
Now you can attach the cleat again. If you use stainless steel backing plate then drill and tap holes for the base of the cleat. If you use plywood then you will have to use self tapping or wood screws.
However with wood screws or self tappers you won't have a very strong. More holes in the base and more screws may help.
Obviously if you can get access behind so much better but if you can't you must compromise repair strength. good luck olewill

 

[Murv]

Thanks all. most reassuring. It wa a bit of a shocker to find a gaping hole in the new pride and joy!

Access to the rear is a bit of an unknown quantity at the moment, but I am hoping to be able to get to it from the engine compartment.
Moving the boat to a garage isn't an option, so I will do a temporary repair by fixing the cleat to some ply and then repair the hole in the Spring when it's (hopefully!) a little warmer.

 

[sarabande]

a bit obvious but it looks as if water has been getting in there for quite a while. Can you rig a small 'tent' to help the cavity dry out over the next month or so ? That will help the repair, and prevent more water going in and accelerating the freeze/thaw delamintion.

 

[Daydream believer]

William h has it fairly right but i would do a couple of things differently
First the backing plate should be drilled & tapped first because if it does not stick to the fibreglass it may drop off when you push down
Secondly because the backing plate has to go trough the hole it will leave gaps at the side.
So
Drill the backing plate & tap. Put the screws in the plate & grease well so they come out easily. Still drill the holes for the holding wires but use cable ties instead of wire
Over the top of the backing plate place a piece of plastic cut from the side of a 5 litre plastic container. This will be bigger than the hole. If you can work it so the plastic is cut with the curl of the container it came from curling upwards this is better as it will add compression, see later on
Clean the underside of the deck round the hole for an inch or so so that new fibreglass will bond on the underside. Place the plastic over the backing plate with holes cut to allow the cable ties & bolts to pass through. Do a trial run to ensure you can get it all in the hole ok. The plastic will flex to allow it to go through the hole
Take the assembly out & apply some wetted fibreglass matt to the top of the plastic. Wet the underside of the deck with resin where you cleaned it back.
Poke the whole lot through the hole & jiggle into place. The curl in the plastic will help push the fibreglass upward & help push it up tight to the underside of the deck
Now make the cable ties into a loop & pass a piece of wood through which is a good 6 inches longer than the hole is wide. Put a 1 inch block each end to stop the wood touching the fibreglass. Tighten the cable ties & pull the plate & the plastic up tight
This means you now have a piece of fibreglass bonded from the back as well as from the top
When resin has hardened cut the piece of wood but not the cable ties. Tighten the cable ties & snip the end . The cable ties can now be bedded in the further layers. This means the backing plate will not fall off. It will have not bonded because of the plastic although there will be some bond where the resin runs through the holes in the plastic.
For this first layer you need a slower setting resin but can use a faster setting for subsequent layers. If using epoxy which i would use then the whole lot needs to be done as soon as earlier layers have hardened to stop the " bloom" forming on the epoxy. I would also stiffen the mix with the brown filler ( forget the ref no) then Carry on as william h has suggested
When done remove the screws & fit the cleat & go sailing
Good luck

 

[Murv]

Thanks all, extremely useful advice
I think I have a plan...
Short term, I'm not going to get time to get to the boat this side of Christmas so can't check as to the rear access but I'm assuming there is some from the engine compartment.

If there is, I'm going to insert a piece of timber behind the hole and secure the cleat to that with some silicon around the edge of the plate to stop water ingress.
That should give a strong enough hold until the weather improves when I can do a permanent repair as detailed above.
Anyone foresee any problems with that?

 

[Hoolie]

It doesn't sound strong enough to me for wild winter conditions.
I'd just cover the hole until the weather is better and use other ways of securing the boat in the meantime.