Damage at not so Safe Harbour.

[doug748]

Some interesting footage here:

Seems to illustrate that those with masts down, or power boats, stand a good chance of staying the right way up, even in hurricane force winds. Odd that they would persist with keeping masts up in that region, perhaps insurers will take the hint.

 

[Fimacca]

Nasty. That looks more like rubbish blocking off , wind direction (it is a hurricane!) and balance issues, than mast up or down problems. (sails on aside - daft)
Having been in that game, with an insurers eye, I would want to know who blocks off the boats when they come out, and does the yard supply those rather lightweight stands for some seriously sized boats. Or was it the owner?
A full frame stand is much better - but more expensive.

 

[Capt Popeye]

Oh the Joys of owning a deep keel craft , yea them go better to windward , they claim /say , but there are other considerations to consider ; windage upon them masts must be quite a factor , I recon

Thanks for posting

 

[Praxinoscope]

My previous boat was a long keeler, for which I used a Yacht Leg Co cradle during the Winter ashore.
My usual Winter position on the hard was immediately beside the harbour entrance and open to winds from between West to North East. Strong NW winds were the worst especially during Springs, and at times the water would wash over the harbour walls and surround my boat, on one occasion the wind and sea was particularly severe with waves of over 3‘or 4’ swirling around, and they actually lifted the boat a couple of inches upwards off the cradle, but fortunately it settled correctly afterwards.
If it had been on the type of support shown in the video it would have certainly been knocked over and possibly ended up in the harbour, but it’s still sad to see all the damage.

 

[capnsensible]

Sad scenes indeed from a yachtsman perspective. I suppose in some places there is the tidal storm surge to contend with too.

Any lifestyle in an area prone to TRS's brings its risks....

 

[johnalison]

I have only once seen a marina kitted out with fixing points on the ground for tying boats down to, and that was in Sweden near Malmo, which struck me as eminently sensible even though this area is not especially exposed.

 

[capnsensible]

I have only once seen a marina kitted out with fixing points on the ground for tying boats down to, and that was in Sweden near Malmo, which struck me as eminently sensible even though this area is not especially exposed.

Some yards in Grenada do that now as a result of Ivan the Terrible.

 

[RupertW]

We had major damage in the UK (Isle of Wight) in the 1989 “hurricane” (mostly people just remember the 1987 one). All the boats in the yard were knocked down. Two main reasons, firstly the domino effect as your boat goes down if the boat next to you goes down, but mostly that it was the last year of having individual props with wedges of wood rather than cradles.. That way is perfect until the wind is strong enough to slightly and briefly lift the boat then one or two blocks fall away and the rest is inevitable.

I suspect an insurance company now would write it off with a big hole a third of the length of the boat with all internal furniture smashed but instead we got another 4 years out of it before selling.

 

[dunedin]

Nasty. That looks more like rubbish blocking off , wind direction (it is a hurricane!) and balance issues, than mast up or down problems. (sails on aside - daft)
Having been in that game, with an insurers eye, I would want to know who blocks off the boats when they come out, and does the yard supply those rather lightweight stands for some seriously sized boats. Or was it the owner?
A full frame stand is much better - but more expensive.

I think having masts up makes a HUGE difference. In a really strong wind the windage and leverage of the mast is massive. More fundamentally, the rigs start to vibrate and vibrate the whole boat, which starts to loosen and then dislodge the props.
Even here in Scotland, well off the hurricane belt, our marina doesn’t allow any boats ashore if they have a jib still on the furle, and mast must be removed if going on wooden props. This is a hassle if no cradle available, but much preferable than being hit by other boats falling over.

 

[Sandy]

I am always amazed at how lightweight the props/cradles are in hurricane areas.

 

[Motor_Sailor]

The average amount of effort taken to protect boats by their owners during hurricanes in Florida is zero. There's almost a macho attitude of being seen to do as little as possible and staying put to 'man it out'. "Hurricane Party at my Place" invitations are more common on the internet during the run up to a storm than any useful advice of what to do. The insurance companies also know that nothing will be done (and would prefer people to actually evacuate in good time), so premiums are set assuming that a percentage (albeit small in the total scheme of things) will be lost each year.

I've never seen boatyards offer 'hurricane pits' or massive weighted tie downs as the whole coast is so low, it's the storm surges that are the biggest danger. We had some slightly higher land in our boatyard (almost 20ft above the high tide mark!) and that's where we put our own boats with their masts down. Some of the other boats we liked we laid on their sides without masts on the grass road embankment going up to a high level bridge adjacent to the property. The others we did whatever their owners asked (usually nothing).

The really destructive path of some hurricanes can be quite narrow so people's experience after been 'hit' by a hurricane can vary enormously. Hugo was forecast to hit land in Charleston, SC. Some local owners took their boats away along the Intercoastal waterway to escape the eye, but those who went north were hammered with on-shore winds and tidal surge whereas those that headed south had much reduced off-shore winds and lower than average tides. Some boats only twenty miles apart had very different conditions despite both being in the red-zone. This very varied first hand experience can lead people into believing their 'survival strategies' are gospel dwspite being in complete contradiction to someone near-by.

There's also a very particular circumstance at the Charlotte Harbour Boat Storage facility in the video. These boats are 'out of commission' (some for ever), and have been put there as it's the lowest cost option. De-rigging them and taking precautions isn't really in the business model. Also, psychologically, it does feel like you've headed to somewhere 'in-land' as the access creek snakes about and you even go through a lockgate. But you actually go in a circle and end up back near the beach.

If you have to leave your boat on the south eastern coast of the USA for a hurricane season, don't listen to the locals! Read some of the old cruising books back when people took these things seriously. Many of the proven hurricane bolt holes still exist well inland on the rivers (like Green Cove Springs on the St Johns).

 

[Daydream believer]

My previous boat was a long keeler, for which I used a Yacht Leg Co cradle during the Winter ashore.
My usual Winter position on the hard was immediately beside the harbour entrance and open to winds from between West to North East. Strong NW winds were the worst especially during Springs, and at times the water would wash over the harbour walls and surround my boat, on one occasion the wind and sea was particularly severe with waves of over 3‘or 4’ swirling around, and they actually lifted the boat a couple of inches upwards off the cradle, but fortunately it settled correctly afterwards.
If it had been on the type of support shown in the video it would have certainly been knocked over and possibly ended up in the harbour, but it’s still sad to see all the damage.
View attachment 144708

I would not have thought that cradle to be sufficient. But it worked - possibly because of the length of keel. A fin might allow a boat to rotate.
There is another thread on the east coast forum where the new marina staff member is refusing to allow the use of a cradle that the owner has used for some time. In many ways I understand the owners annoyance. However, considering the likelyhood of higher winds , even here on the SE coast of the Uk I kind of understand the marinas concerns. Of course one can easily put extra props in place. However, I have no faith in single poles with wedges. Any diferential movement will let one prop go, then another & we have a boat going over on to the next & so on.
In the picture above I would have expected a cradle with 6 legs, all joined structurally. Particularly in such an exposed position.
It is not just the owners risk to be considered. It is those alongside as well.

 

[NormanS]

I think having masts up makes a HUGE difference. In a really strong wind the windage and leverage of the mast is massive. More fundamentally, the rigs start to vibrate and vibrate the whole boat, which starts to loosen and then dislodge the props.
Even here in Scotland, well off the hurricane belt, our marina doesn’t allow any boats ashore if they have a jib still on the furle, and mast must be removed if going on wooden props. This is a hassle if no cradle available, but much preferable than being hit by other boats falling over.

It depends on the situation of the boatyard/shore storage area. The yard where I winter, also in Scotland, was previously quarried for gravel, and so is noticeably lower than the surrounding land. It also has the protection of trees. All yachts are in cradles, and so there is no requirement to drop masts. I do worry about other yards, where wooden shores are used, often in potentially exposed places.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

I would not have thought that cradle to be sufficient. But it worked - possibly because of the length of keel. A fin might allow a boat to rotate.

Very similar design to my cradle, I have a fin keel, encapsulated. Boat sat for three years, with some very strong winds of F10. The base is very wide and the supports very strong with good support from struts reacting more in line which reduces the bending moment. The struts are also of a larger diameter, thicker wall, than other cradle struts that I have seen. I think they are made from standard Acrow Props and hence need to be loaded in line longitudinally. The boat is in effect supporting itself on the keel, so it has to be able to do that by design, hence not all fin keeled boats could use this type of cradle without extra props to support the hull. I agree that if the boat rotated, say by the bow blowing off, the spread between horizontals may shorten.

 

[Motor_Sailor]

It depends on the situation of the boatyard/shore storage area. The yard where I winter, also in Scotland, was previously quarried for gravel . . .

I guess Creran Marine? The guys there are probably the most conscientious boat handlers I've seen at any yard.

 

[Praxinoscope]

#12, the cradle was very stable for the 22 years I used it, the geometry of it is such that the weight of the keel, long or short, holds the cradle base and supports in situe, the Acro props are well up to holding the legs in place, the cradle construction was of U-form galvanised steel channels for the supports and the base of welded 8mm galvanised right angled steel.
As mentioned in my post #4 it was at times subjected to heavy bombardment of water as well as some violent winds, yet never had any problems.

 

[Crowblack]

I have only once seen a marina kitted out with fixing points on the ground for tying boats down to, and that was in Sweden near Malmo, which struck me as eminently sensible even though this area is not especially exposed.

Overwintered for a few years, small boatyard in Cardigan Bay where they always tied the boat down. Mind you a wintertime screaming Sou Wester coming in over the dunes was something to behold - always felt safe thogh.

 

[Beneteau381]

I have only once seen a marina kitted out with fixing points on the ground for tying boats down to, and that was in Sweden near Malmo, which struck me as eminently sensible even though this area is not especially exposed.

Bruces Yard in Faro has and does it asa matter of course

 

[geem]

Oh the Joys of owning a deep keel craft , yea them go better to windward , they claim /say , but there are other considerations to consider ; windage upon them masts must be quite a factor , I recon

Thanks for posting

Throught the Caribbean the use of lightweight stands is standard practise. The yard we were in for the summer doesn't have a single conventional cradle.
However, we choose a yard that is outside the hurricane belt. It is very difficult to get name storm cover in the Caribbean. If you can get it, it is super expensive.
I wouldn't choose a boat based on its ability to survive a hurricane on lightweight stands. As individuals we choose boats that suit our needs. We do spend a fair amount of time going to windward and yes, deep draft boats do go better to windward but there are many factors that make that choice the right one for the individual.
The US philosophy on boats seems to be that they don't take the same care of their asset as we do. We have heard several times from US sailors "that it doesn't matter, we have insurance" we hope to never need to claim and we use the boat as if we don't have insurance. When you cruise in an area prone to hurricanes and lots of boats get trashed, getting work done on your boats post hurricane is a lottery. For one you can't get work done. There isn't enough yards and people with the skills needed. Lots of boats get badly repaired and sold on to unsuspecting owners.

 

[doug748]

If I had a power boat I would not want it stored next to a sailing yacht with mast up, in those latitudes. I could not spot a single boat blown down unless it had a mast or was bare hull damaged by an adjacent, rigged sailing boat.

Amongst the carnage there was a row of 5 power boats and mastless yachts all undamaged then the wreckage resumed till 3 more undamaged, all with no masts, then 2 more etc. Obvious way forward, some boats even had sails rigged, in a hurricane zone ?‍. Got me beat.

.