CYCA handicap wanted for hunter Horizon 23 (and help understanding handicaps)

[ProDave]

We have a Hunter Horizon that we might race next year, and I need to find it's CYCA handicap which is what our club uses.

I have found this document https://www.clyc.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/NHCBaseList010614.pdf But that gives us a handicap of 0.829

Most of the cruisers in our club have a handicap of between 20 and 25 so clearly a different method of rating them. A club member with Sonata has a CYCA of 21 so ours should be similar to that.

So where can I find the CYCA rating for our boat, or at least a formula to convert from one rating system to another?

 

[awol]

Stick Hunter Horizon into The Clyde Yacht Clubs Association The rest of the website gives the explanation of the variations.

 

[ProDave]

Stick Hunter Horizon into The Clyde Yacht Clubs Association The rest of the website gives the explanation of the variations.

Thanks. Getting closer. but searching for "Hunter Horizon 23" gives me 2 results, how do I know which applies to my boat?




Looking for "Hunter Horizon 23" in database column Class Name
Results of your search....

Class Name	Standard min/hr	Comments	Data Date	Date Last H'cap Revision
HUNTER HORIZON 23	20.75	outboards in well std, self tack jib same as 232	28/07/2023	24/01/2001
HUNTER HORIZON 23 2K	22.75	outboards in well std, self tack jib same as 233	28/07/2023	24/01/2001

Total number of records: 1286 Matching records: 2

 

[dunedin]

Thanks. Getting closer. but searching for "Hunter Horizon 23" gives me 2 results, how do I know which applies to my boat?




Looking for "Hunter Horizon 23" in database column Class Name
Results of your search....

Class Name	Standard min/hr	Comments	Data Date	Date Last H'cap Revision
HUNTER HORIZON 23	20.75	outboards in well std, self tack jib same as 232	28/07/2023	24/01/2001
HUNTER HORIZON 23 2K	22.75	outboards in well std, self tack jib same as 233	28/07/2023	24/01/2001

Total number of records: 1286 Matching records: 2

The one suffixed “2K” is presumably twin keel, and the other one by elimination a fin keel one?

 

[ProDave]

The one suffixed “2K” is presumably twin keel, and the other one by elimination a fin keel one?

That makes sense, ours is twin keel. I was thinking it was year 2K but they are all older than that.

 

[awol]

You really should go through the process of getting a handicap certificate for your boat. If you ever want to play away from home you will need it.

 

[Birdseye]

The race organiser at your club will give you a handicap. Its not normally for you to tell him so much as the other way round.

 

[dunedin]

The race organiser at your club will give you a handicap. Its not normally for you to tell him so much as the other way round.

That’s not the way the Clyde Yacht Clubs Association handicapping system works, which is the system the OP said his club uses in post #1

 

[awol]

I had a coversation last week with a RYA (Scotland) guy who had led the webinair (is that really a word?) on the latest RYA handicap system suggesting its formulaic (and free!) methodology could replace the CYCA incantations over chicken bones, drinks for the committee, beyond opaque, system. I put him right - bar takings in yacht clubs would plummet if we couldn't sound off about the iniquities of the system, the obvious handicap bandits, that is unless we had won in which case it is a brilliant, fair, true gauge of boat performance.

 

[penfold]

I'm pretty sure dried seaweed, fortune cookies and a magic eightball are involved in the handicapping process.

I had a coversation last week with a RYA (Scotland) guy who had led the webinair (is that really a word?) on the latest RYA handicap system suggesting its formulaic (and free!) methodology could replace the CYCA incantations over chicken bones, drinks for the committee, beyond opaque, system. I put him right - bar takings in yacht clubs would plummet if we couldn't sound off about the iniquities of the system, the obvious handicap bandits, that is unless we had won in which case it is a brilliant, fair, true gauge of boat performance.

 

[Birdseye]

That’s not the way the Clyde Yacht Clubs Association handicapping system works, which is the system the OP said his club uses in post #1

maybe not but I bet its the way that his club race officer works. Its unlikely that he would just accept whatever number the OP gave him. Not every sailor is above "massaging" his handicap given a chance

 

[Birdseye]

I had a coversation last week with a RYA (Scotland) guy who had led the webinair (is that really a word?) on the latest RYA handicap system suggesting its formulaic (and free!) methodology could replace the CYCA incantations over chicken bones, drinks for the committee, beyond opaque, system. I put him right - bar takings in yacht clubs would plummet if we couldn't sound off about the iniquities of the system, the obvious handicap bandits, that is unless we had won in which case it is a brilliant, fair, true gauge of boat performance.

Are you sure? The base NHC number was formulaic and the adjustment was computer based and independant of the club. Didnt stop endless debate about "bandits". Mind you the computer adjustment could be ( and was) gamed.

 

[awol]

Are you sure? The base NHC number was formulaic and the adjustment was computer based and independant of the club. Didnt stop endless debate about "bandits". Mind you the computer adjustment could be ( and was) gamed.

You need to keep up - NHC is so yesterday! YTC is the latest system - "powered" by the RORC rating system.

 

[ProDave]

maybe not but I bet its the way that his club race officer works. Its unlikely that he would just accept whatever number the OP gave him. Not every sailor is above "massaging" his handicap given a chance

But our race officer should accept if we show him the listing for an identical make and model of boat on the CYCA database. How could they argue our boat was something special?

We could justifiably argue our boat was slower, as the original design provisioned for an outboard in a well that can be lifted out. but that only works for a short shaft outboard. Ours is long shaft so cannot be lifted completely clear of the water so we always have some drag from the OB leg in the water, so if you are going to argue our handicap should be worse to reflect that.

 

[penfold]

I don't think you'll win that argument, mostly because it's a movable feast; they will argue and I'd agree that if you're serious about racing you'll either lift your O/B each time to be as slippery as possible or more practically you'll find a short shaft O/B.

 

[Aja]

maybe not but I bet its the way that his club race officer works. Its unlikely that he would just accept whatever number the OP gave him. Not every sailor is above "massaging" his handicap given a chance

CYCA issue a Certificate for each boat. No certificate, no handicap.

 

[Birdseye]

CYCA issue a Certificate for each boat. No certificate, no handicap.

Post 3 suggests otherwise, but happy to accept what you post

 

[awol]

Post 3 suggests otherwise, but happy to accept what you post

Post 3 is just an excerpt from the CYCA data base on a "boat type" search. Individual boats require an individual handicap e.g. 3-bladed prop, furling headsail, etc. all get an allowance. Unfortunately, the system doesn't penalise carbon masts, hi-tech sails, rod rigging, reprofiled keels and rudders, etc. so plenty of scope to buy wins. Fortunately, the waters we sail in have sufficient vagaries to reduce the value of tech without local knowledge.

 

[penfold]

People with that amount of money race in RC35.

 

[awol]

People with that amount of money race in RC35.

If only .........................

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